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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:52 am
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A cheap amp THAT DOES.T FUNCTION AS AND ACTUAL AMP IS NOT AN AMP AT ALL!! Why do you guys have a problem understanding this. The sample posted makes that guys amp UNUSABLE AS AN ACTUAL AMP. That is not acceptable AT ANY PRICE, PERIOD!!!

If you buy a tube amp and pay 100 bucks for it AND IT SMOKES AND DOESN'T MAKE A SOUND, then YOU DIDN'T GET A GOOD DEAL just because you only paid a hundred bucks for a tube amp, get it? A product HAS TO ACTUALLY FUNCTION AS WHAT IT IS SOLD AS, AT ANY PRICE, you don't think that?

My amp has the fizz, but it's not as bad yet as the guys in the sample.

Also, Fender can't call it an UPGRADE? Why can't they simply say, the fizz is within the specs we designed, so we are not laible for something that is not outside our design specs, BUT, there is an UPGRADE for a certain component that we will give owners even betterb performance if they wish to get the amp done. We will provide the higher quality component at a certain price, you may have your work done at a service center or anywhere you want.

They don't have to ever say that the fizz is outside their specs, they can simply tell people what the fizz is caused from and say we can get the amp upgraded if we want better performance specs out of it, our option.
Coversation from me to friend
Me: Hey buddy, I just bought a great Laptop. I got a great deal, the screen stopped working after 30 days, but i only paid 50 bucks for it.

Friend: Yeah, but, you really can't do much with it, well, because you can only see a couple lines of text on the screen, if you can't use it really as a laptop, it's worthless.

Me: Yeah, but I got it for fifty bucks, that's a great deal for a laptop computer.

Friend: Well, it might be, but you'll need to get it fixed so you can use it, did you call the manufacturer to find out why the screen is doing that?

Me: Uh, yeah, they said that there really is nothing wrong with it, or that they can't fix it for me, and that I should be happy that I only paid fifty dollars for it

Friend: yeah, but, if you can't even see most of the screen, it's really not even a functioning laptop.

Me: yeah, but like i said, I only paid fifty dollars for it, I should be happy I got such a great deal.

Friend, hmm, say, I've got a stereo I got a while back, um, you know, it stays on only for 1 minute and then it goes out, but it is incredible sounding, I don't need it any more, you want to buy it for 25 dollars?

Me: Wow, 25 bucks for this incredible stereo, listen to that sound. But it only stays on until it gets warm.

Friend: yeah, but you are only paying 25 bucks, this thing is incredible, I'll just sell it to someone else if you don't want it

Me: Wait, I'll take it, I just can't pass up that great deal.

Friend as he leaves under his breath: God, what an IDIOT.

Now, if the guy in that sample paid even a HUNDRED DOLLARS for that amp, and it is now UNUSABLE at his Jazz gig playing cleanish jazz music (And you can clearly hear that's the case) and yet it didn't have this problem when he bought it, but it happened just 30 days in, and fender refuses to even say it's a problem (When EVEN THE BIGGEST MORON WITH EARS CAN HEAR IT'S UNUSABLE in probably more than half the situations that an amp is used in, (anything not heavy rock), uh, ready, uh HE GOT SCREWED!!!!!

UNDRSTAND? HE GOOOTTT SSSCCCRREEWWEEDDD!!!! FENDER SHOULD FIX HIS AMP, NO MATTER WHAT HE PAID FOR IT, HE GOT SSSCCRREEWWED!!!!



FFXIhealer wrote:
F-n A. I'm so sick and tired of people b*tching about A CHEAP AMP having problems. You know why? Because IT'S A CHEAP AMP!

No, seriously, I'll say it again. IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

I'm glad that at least ONE person on this board has some perspective. Nothing's ever good enough for people. They want the cake and eat it, but not only that, the icing wasn't exactly the right flavor I wanted with my free cake, so I want to b*tch and moan about it on a forum somewhere and make it look like the problem is 10x worse than it really is.

Fender sells a LOT of these buggers and only a handful have had the fizz, but you wouldn't know that if you came on here and saw all the same people b*tching about it all the time like it's some kind of plague to mankind and we're all gonna die from bobotuber $@!& filled boils.

So I'll say it yet again. IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

Do like the man says, cough up some serious money, and buy a REAL amp if the "fizz" is that big of a deal. I got my Mustang V not to play cleans anyway (even though MINE doesn't have a fizz problem at all). I bought it so I could have a passable Mesa Boogie and Peavey amp without forking over the $5,000 for the real ones + cabs. It's not perfect, but then again, it only cost me $***. You know why?

Because IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

If I could make the text blink different colors, I'd make it do that too.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:03 am
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And further I have owned several modeling amps, a couple from Line 6, and NEVER EVER EVER, have i heard a problem even beginning to APPROACH that dreadful sound that is in that sample, NOT EVEN IN THE SAME BALL PARK as that sample. Post some clips of other modeling amps that have a problem to that extent, I have never heard one, EVER that even begins to come close. I have owned the first Spider amp, and it sounded like crap, IN A TONE WAY, or didn't cut through the mix, and the effects sucked, BUT NEVER had I EVER heard a HUGE BUZZ like the sample above, NOT EVEN CLOSE, and that amp was the cheapest of the cheap. The problem in that sample above is BEYOND COMPARE to any other problem I have ever heard in the modeling amps I have owned and also any of the amps the people I know have owned.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:58 am
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You know, I wouldn't be here whinging if Fender had exchanged my amp when I brought it in to the Fender Authorized Service Center under warranty. All I read about here is MIII's that don't fizz, and when I asked for one of those, they sent me packing.

If there are fizz-free amps, why can't I have one too?

Oh yes, I'll be whinging, because a) I think "whing" is a funny word, and b) I want an MIII that I can take to gigs, just like everybody else. In fact, I'm going to re-name my band Whings. Go ahead and sue me, McCartney.

Just because it's a cheap amp doesn't give Fender the right to rip people off. If it's so cheap, they can just give everyone who's unhappy their cheap money back.

I'm far from done here.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:41 pm
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Right on brother. NO way in this world anyone can hear that sample and say "This amp is not BROKEN and shouldn't be fixed under warranty" To any reasonable mind, that sound is coming from a broken amp, it's that simple and it's a slap in the face to anyone Fender would say that to.

I love fender, own a bunch of their stuff, best company in the world, that's why they should do something about this, their reputation is at stake.

Again, they don't need to say there is a problem, lot's of companies offer better performance on a product by selling upgrades. They can just say that anyone who wants a better sound can purchase a certain component and give us the specs for it, tell us what to buy, and we could buy it from them or someone else. Even if it voids the warranty, or they could charge for people to take them to service centers. I would have no problem paying another 150 dollars or so to make sure this awesome amp works perfectly. No need for no law suit, just let us upgrade to better than the original specs, sell the upgrade.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:36 pm
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FFXIhealer wrote:
F-n A. I'm so sick and tired of people b*tching about A CHEAP AMP having problems. You know why? Because IT'S A CHEAP AMP!

No, seriously, I'll say it again. IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

I'm glad that at least ONE person on this board has some perspective. Nothing's ever good enough for people. They want the cake and eat it, but not only that, the icing wasn't exactly the right flavor I wanted with my free cake, so I want to b*tch and moan about it on a forum somewhere and make it look like the problem is 10x worse than it really is.

Fender sells a LOT of these buggers and only a handful have had the fizz, but you wouldn't know that if you came on here and saw all the same people b*tching about it all the time like it's some kind of plague to mankind and we're all gonna die from bobotuber $@!& filled boils.

So I'll say it yet again. IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

Do like the man says, cough up some serious money, and buy a REAL amp if the "fizz" is that big of a deal. I got my Mustang V not to play cleans anyway (even though MINE doesn't have a fizz problem at all). I bought it so I could have a passable Mesa Boogie and Peavey amp without forking over the $5,000 for the real ones + cabs. It's not perfect, but then again, it only cost me $***. You know why?

Because IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

If I could make the text blink different colors, I'd make it do that too.


@FFXIhealer

As evidenced by Fender's marketing on their site ... and as exhibited in the many sound files they have so provided ... the Mustang series has been marketed by Fender to provide a wide variety of clean tones ... free of distortion, fizz and other artifacts.

Therefore ... customers who buy any Mustang model have a right to expect that the amp they purchased performs in a similar manner ... regardless of the price of the amp. Simple as that.

No one but Fender has a decent handle on the percentage of Mustang amps that fizz ... so your assertion that "only a handful have had the fizz" is unprovable. There is however a thread on this forum ... a survey of MIII/IV/V owners ... that indicates about half of these amps fizz. Not scientific as they say ... but it's the only source I know that has put a number to it.

This is not about inexpensive vs expensive amps ... or solid state/modeling amps vs tube amps.

It's about Fender Mustang amps purchased by customers who have concluded that their amp has a problem and because of it ... does not perform as Fender says it should in their marketing material.

It's about Fender's unwillingness to admit there is a problem, repair those amps or otherwise make those owners whole.

It's about Fender's unmitigated gall in taking their customers money ... and effectively telling them "tough luck sucker" ... via their official response to this forum ... and in some cases at both the dealer and warranty level.

Fender has screwed these customers ... and they deserve every single letter of heat, complaints, bad press and lost sales that they receive as a result of this matter.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:58 pm
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About a year ago my wife bought us a Keurig B-70 single-serve coffee maker for $180. Cheaper than the MIII, and also made in China.

A few weeks ago the water pump started acting up--a full cup of coffee wasn't coming out. Last Friday my wife called Keurig to ask what to do. Today, Fed Ex dropped of a new Keurig B-70 coffee maker. No charge.

Fender--wake up and smell the coffee.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:35 am
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A survey in a forum is not a reliable stat source. Consider that people that does not have the problem are less motivated to vote on the survey, maybe they does not read the forum at all. How many "non-fizzing amp owner" will vote? 25% of thoose that are on the forum? Less? More? And did you consider all the people that register to the forum just to write bad review for a product they dont even own?

I am not saing you not deserve your amp fixed, just that a forum survey is just a forum survey.

On the other hand you have to consider the difference between a digital modeler and a tube amp: a tube amp is "bare metal" and a digital modeler is more like "pure idea".

I guess that un Randall Smith when build his first mesa boogie took the fender amp concept and do a redesign, maybe he took more time with his solder than with his "pencil".

I mean, a tube amp design is a relatively simple thing, one man alone can easily to the thing.

You can imagine what was the design of the Mustang... a lot more people and a lot more time involved. You pay the research rather than the "metal" of the product.

The complex the design, the harder to find the problem.

My suggestion is: if you are not leaving, if you think the Mustang deserve a chance, stop the pure complain and start feeding information that worth, useful information to localize the problem. When he sorted out? How many seconds after the stroke? Patch? Fx? Model? Setting? Guitar? Cable? Strings? Do you wear pants? Had a beer before playing? Are you vegan? Do you belive in UFO? (dont take seriously the last 4 :D :D :D)

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I love my Mustang!

---------------------

You can find all my Mustang tips here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/
An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/p/unoffcial-guide-to-fender-mustang.html

USB Footswitch Opensource Project:

https://github.com/mordor74/mustang-raider


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:06 am
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@mordor74

The numbers contained in the survey in this forum are reliable. The question is how do they correlate to the total population of MIII/IV/V owners. No one can say ... but at the moment it's all we have to go by ... and it's prudent to assume that where there's smoke there's fire ... especially when it comes to spending your money on a product that evidently isn't fully backed by it's maker.

An amp is an amp. Fender designed the Mustang ... Fender builds and sells it. It's not marketed as anything less.

For almost a year ... owners of fizzy Mustangs have speculated on the cause of the fizz ... have discussed it with Fender directly, their dealers and warranty service providers ... and posted their thoughts, reactions and ideas in this and other forums ... only to be told by Fender that the fizz is within spec and that it's an artifact caused by astute ears of the owner or particular settings etc.

IMO Fender has reached the end of the road with many of their customers who purchased a fizzy Mustang and have been dissatisfied with Fenders obstinate stance on the matter. If Fender didn't correct the problem with their amp ... those owners have a clear right to complain all they want ... because they are increasingly coming to the conclusion that ... they have been fleeced by Fender.

KenB


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Post subject: For God sakes, it's a $299 amp...
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:06 am
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Hmmm, my perspective on this issue is pretty simple. I have a Mustang II, III and a V - and they all have differing levels of fizz, but I still gig and rehearse with all of them just the same. I've played a number of gigs with both the III and the V - I've never had anybody come up to me and talk about how bad the amp sounded - quite the opposite actually! This is the first amp since my beloved Fender CyberDeluxe that can cover anything I play with just a couple of presets and built-in effects. I play rock dates, R&B/Funk and even the occasional jazz gig, and these amps can do it all. All for $299 for a Mustang III or a Mustang V. That's just ridiculous! You can't even buy a decent tube amp for $299... Believe me, I know, I've owned more tube amps in the last 35 years that you can imagine - none of them even remotely approach the tonal palette available on the Mustangs (nor the light weight!).

Guitarists are a picky bunch, but they tend to forget that the average audience member can't hear the difference between a vintage tube amp a decent modeller, much less an *artifact* like the one in the Mustang.

What I would really like to see (as I have stated before) is a higher end Mustang in the $800 - $1000 range that would use higher quality components, pro-XLR direct outs and maybe more amp models to choose from. If I bought that model and it *fizzed*, I would be upset and would demand corrective action, but for $299, it's pretty hard for me to complain...


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:31 pm
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@tkdunn17: So the fact that high volume and a noisy environment may mask my Mustang's "clean" tone fizz means it's OK? And my problem, that I shouldn't blame Fender for, is I want to enjoy it at home too?

I've had three other modeling amps (an old Line 6 Spider II and two Roland Cubes), plus a cheap little Zoom G2.1u, and I'd take any of their "Fender" cleans over my Mustang's at home, because they at least don't sound defective!

I expect *any* Fender amp to at least be able to deliver a legitimate clean tone.

OK, $299. That's $299 I could have put towards a better amp. If they wanted me to know their $299 amp was such a cheap effort that a fizzy power amp would be acceptable, they could at least have labeled it Squier.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:25 am
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tkdunn17 i like your idea... a deluxe-pro version like line6 did with their product. I will add to your receipe a faster DSP that allow more flexibility in the stomp department (i would like to have OD+PS+COMP in the same preset! ;) ) and maybe an armonizer to complete the package!

I am a newcomer and i just own an MI but i am reading a lot about the fizz since a friend is wating an MIII and an MV and i wanted to know all i can...

I cant see all that information floating around about the fizz, maybe they are buried by the complains?

There is only a single video on youtube showing the problem.

Someone here has more information to share with me?

I understand the usb recording is not affected. Every clean amp and tone is affected? Turning off speaker emulation change something? Do you hear it in the headphones out too?

_________________
I love my Mustang!

---------------------

You can find all my Mustang tips here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/
An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/p/unoffcial-guide-to-fender-mustang.html

USB Footswitch Opensource Project:

https://github.com/mordor74/mustang-raider


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:42 am
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mordor74 wrote:

I cant see all that information floating around about the fizz, maybe they are buried by the complains?

There is only a single video on youtube showing the problem.

Someone here has more information to share with me?

I understand the usb recording is not affected. Every clean amp and tone is affected? Turning off speaker emulation change something? Do you hear it in the headphones out too?


@mordor74

Well ...

IMO the best version of how fizz sounds is here
http://soundcloud.com/spiesteleviv/fenderfizz/s-QkDHb
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H3gFU6e7o

There is PLENTY of info on this forum regarding fizz ... and there are several threads going back about a year. IMO those threads mostly contain ideas by owners and others regarding the cause of the fizz and complaints regarding how the problem has been handled by Fender. Bottom line ... no one outside of Fender (as far as I've read) has determined the exact cause of the fizz and the exact fix required. We assume Fender knows ... but they ain't talkin' ... except in their official statement they effectively said ... tough luck.

All you need to know at this point is what it sounds like and how to test for it.

To test for it just set up your amp to produce a clean tone ... no effects ... not much gain. Play real s-l-o-w ... hit a few single notes ... listen and pay attention. If ya have it it's easiest to notice on the lower strings as the notes decay ... it will be obvious. Once you know how it sounds on your amp ... if you listen closely ... you'll probably be able to hear it on all notes on all strings ... and perhaps all clean settings. BTW ... best to set-up the clean tones with FUSE ... rather than rely on the installed presets native to the amp.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:27 am
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jeffguitar wrote:
A cheap amp THAT DOES.T FUNCTION AS AND ACTUAL AMP IS NOT AN AMP AT ALL!! Why do you guys have a problem understanding this. The sample posted makes that guys amp UNUSABLE AS AN ACTUAL AMP. That is not acceptable AT ANY PRICE, PERIOD!!!

My amp sounds exactly like the samples. But the thing is, the only way I ever notice it is if I play my guitar exactly like they are playing in the samples. Like this....

KenB5 wrote:
To test for it just set up your amp to produce a clean tone ... no effects ... not much gain. Play real s-l-o-w ... hit a few single notes ... listen and pay attention. If ya have it it's easiest to notice on the lower strings as the notes decay ... it will be obvious. Once you know how it sounds on your amp ... if you listen closely ... you'll probably be able to hear it on all notes on all strings ... and perhaps all clean settings. BTW ... best to set-up the clean tones with FUSE ... rather than rely on the installed presets native to the amp.
KenB

Who plays their guitar like that? I admittedly am not much of a clean jazz player. But I can play some clean finger pickin stuff or SRV's Lenny and I can tell you I surely don't notice the fizz when I'm playing.

I am with KenB5 on this one. You have to compare it for what it is to other like products for what they are. Apples to apples people! If you do that and you find another product for the same price that you like better, then go get the other product. As for me, there's nothing out there that tops my MIII for $299... yet.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:47 am
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Quote:
To test for it just set up your amp to produce a clean tone ... no effects ... not much gain


Do you mean that if you add effects the amp dont fizz? What if you test with a reverb, a delay or a compression?

_________________
I love my Mustang!

---------------------

You can find all my Mustang tips here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/
An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/p/unoffcial-guide-to-fender-mustang.html

USB Footswitch Opensource Project:

https://github.com/mordor74/mustang-raider


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:30 am
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mordor74 wrote:
Quote:
To test for it just set up your amp to produce a clean tone ... no effects ... not much gain


Do you mean that if you add effects the amp dont fizz? What if you test with a reverb, a delay or a compression?


@mordor74

Nope ... that's not what I'm saying. What you want to do is remove or reduce any of the patch variables that could mask the fizz ... such as distortion. The cleaner you have your patch set up the easier it will be to hear fizz if ya have it. Once you know how to detect fizz, if ya have it ... you can start messing around with all the settings and define the extent you can hear it for the way you normally prefer to play.

KenB


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