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Post subject: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:38 am
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I have been playing for, I hate to say it, over 40 years and this amp is honestly one of the best amps I've ever owned. I'm praying (and I'm an atheist) that it doesn't develop the "fizz". If it does, my god (no pun intended), I hope they fix it!


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:07 pm
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Happy to hear that you enjoy your M3. :D
My advise: stop listening to it too carefully, searching for hypothetical fizz.
Because at the end you might get persuaded that you hear "fizz" even if there is not (brain is so powerful...)
Just play and have fun.

And if you are too close to the amp, that is not good for your ears anyway. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:43 pm
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There is nothing "hypothetical" about fizz. Fender acknowledges that it is a real issue and that all III/IV/V are susceptible to it. If you don't have it (yet) or never play models for which it is a problem, consider yourself lucky. For the many here who have it, suggesting that it is somehow a figment of their imagination is both insulting and contrary to Fender's own statements on the matter. Believe me, it's real. And Fender agrees. No statement from Fender has ever suggested it is somehow "hypothetical."

willmodelisme wrote:
Happy to hear that you enjoy your M3. :D
My advise: stop listening to it too carefully, searching for hypothetical fizz.
Because at the end you might get persuaded that you hear "fizz" even if there is not (brain is so powerful...)
Just play and have fun.

And if you are too close to the amp, that is not good for your ears anyway. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:53 am
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brucefulton wrote:
There is nothing "hypothetical" about fizz. Fender acknowledges that it is a real issue and that all III/IV/V are susceptible to it. If you don't have it (yet)


I'm interested in what you meant by 'if you don't have it (yet)'. Does this mean that there been instances where it developed on amps that didn't have it initially? I have a III and haven't experienced this on the amp I have and this has me concerned that this will appear sometime in the future.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:35 am
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normhart wrote:
brucefulton wrote:
There is nothing "hypothetical" about fizz. Fender acknowledges that it is a real issue and that all III/IV/V are susceptible to it. If you don't have it (yet)


I'm interested in what you meant by 'if you don't have it (yet)'. Does this mean that there been instances where it developed on amps that didn't have it initially? I have a III and haven't experienced this on the amp I have and this has me concerned that this will appear sometime in the future.


Yes, there are many posts on this forum by members with fizz who didn't have it initially. There are some posts by me buried in here somewhere gloating about how I didn't have the fizz. Shortly after the return period expired, I got it.

Not to worry though. Fender has assured us that the fizz is normal, can only be heard by people with super-acute hearing, and has no effect on the intended use of the amp. So if you get it, pay no attention to it.

It's like when you put a gouge in your brand new guitar, and people tell you "just don't look at it."

Firmware 2.0 is going to contain an inaudible subliminal message saying over and over "you can't hear the fizz, you can't hear the fizz...." It will be like a miracle!


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:06 am
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cormorant wrote:
Firmware 2.0 is going to contain an inaudible subliminal message saying over and over "you can't hear the fizz, you can't hear the fizz...." It will be like a miracle!


LOL! That might just work for me! Problem solved!

Seriously though, I use this amp primarily for recording and for what little live playing I do - well I have a tube amp for that. I read that it doesn't appear when using the headphones out (which I use as the recording out). If for some reason I do need to use the amp 'live', it seems the conditions where it's most noticeable won't be ones I'll be playing under most of the time, anyway. So fizz or no fizz, the amp will definitely be useable to me -plus the thing does have some great sounds.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:55 pm
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normhart wrote:
brucefulton wrote:
There is nothing "hypothetical" about fizz. Fender acknowledges that it is a real issue and that all III/IV/V are susceptible to it. If you don't have it (yet)


I'm interested in what you meant by 'if you don't have it (yet)'. Does this mean that there been instances where it developed on amps that didn't have it initially? I have a III and haven't experienced this on the amp I have and this has me concerned that this will appear sometime in the future.

I mean exactly that. In my case, onset of fizz was sudden, quite noticeable (my wife commented on it after it began) and a week outside the vendor return period. There is no question in my mind that it did not fizz on acquisition and that after about five weeks after acquisition, the sound deteriorated to the point where clean settings were simply unusable in real-life playing situations on actual songs (as opposed to just playing a single note and looking for it).

The inside Fender rep I talked to seemed to discount this (which frankly p** me off) by saying that they all do it and that it is an inherent artifact of the amp. I don't think they believe that it can commence sometime after purchase. However there are plenty of people who strongly affirm that it developed sometime after purchase. And the Fender rep never listened to my amp. When I played it at the service center I took it to for examination, the manager I demonstrated it to was visibly surprised and had no trouble identifying the classic decay envelope characterizing fizz. He was also not pleased that his floor unit demonstrated the same issue, and that Fender told him as well that, "they all do it."

The question is when.

If you have heard actual bad fizz, there is no way you could possibly suggest it is something you didn't notice before. The fact that it does onset for many people after some period of use is the biggest argument that this is some kind of manufacturing or design flaw and not just something that is a modeling artifact. That, combined with the clear evidence that when it does appear, it is in the post-modeling section (and not apparent through the headphone circuit) is a smoking gun.

Fender really needs to own up. They claim they know what is causing it, but that it is within design spec. For those of us who have been impacted by this, it's simply not an acceptable explanation.

And since some of us have suffered actual financial harm, I believe it's actionable.

As always, I look forward to hear any comment from Fender on my understanding of their position. To date, silence.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:28 pm
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brucefulton wrote:
The question is when.

If you have heard actual bad fizz, there is no way you could possibly suggest it is something you didn't notice before. The fact that it does onset for many people after some period of use is the biggest argument that this is some kind of manufacturing or design flaw and not just something that is a modeling artifact. That, combined with the clear evidence that when it does appear, it is in the post-modeling section (and not apparent through the headphone circuit) is a smoking gun.

Fender really needs to own up. They claim they know what is causing it, but that it is within design spec. For those of us who have been impacted by this, it's simply not an acceptable explanation.

And since some of us have suffered actual financial harm, I believe it's actionable.

As always, I look forward to hear any comment from Fender on my understanding of their position. To date, silence.


I'd be interested in hearing what they have to say as well. In my case, I use my other amps for live playing and the Mustang mostly, if not full time, for recording. I hear that this is an area that's not affected so at least the amp is useable in the meantime.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:58 am
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Really, I guess this is a figment of your imagination as well? Have a listen.
http://soundcloud.com/spiesteleviv/fenderfizz/s-QkDHb


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:27 pm
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I am not denying the fizz issue or defending Fender on this issue however, when evaluating the Mustang, it must be done in light of how affordable it is. The fizz issue s/b addressed to users satisfaction, but it amazes me how many people compare the Mustangs to their expensive tube amps that cost 3-5 times as much. There are legitimate gripes that users have mentioned, but I am really amazed at the SRV tones I am able to coax out of a Mustang III.

I'm probably stoked because I have not heard the fizz issue on my amp yet. :)


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:40 pm
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Here's the thing.

I bought a Mustang IV about 4 months ago. Initially it didn't have any Fizz that I could detect and YES i was aware of this issue before buying it, as I always do my research on new gear before buying, so I was aware what to listen for and how to make it happen.

About 3 to weeks after I bought it, the Fizz became noticeable. By this stage, I had modified quite a lot of the presets at the amp level itself. I then started to connect to my laptop and modifiy more deeply as well as downloading presets etc. So I to, thought that maybe changing parameters on presets may have introduced the problem.

I was always going to buy a Mustang 3 as a backup and even though the Fizz was a happening thing for me, I still went ahead and bought a 3 anyway, as I wanted the same platform to use as a backup with all of my modified preset list installed on both, so that they were a perfect mirror image. Great for stage backup.

The Mustang 3 had the Fizz, straight out of the box unused. This amo was from a brand new shipment which I had to wait for, so it had not been sitting on a showroom floor with time to develop the Fizz. So any suggestion, that this is a virus, is ludicrous.

Some have mentioned that this is in the changing of presets or firmware, others suggest it;s in the speaker etc. etc. etc. So I decided firstly to disconnect the stock Celestion speakers and connect up a 2 x 12 cab that i use, that is absolutely clean without doubt and Bingo! the Fizz was still there, so the problem is not related to speakers.

Next I decided to check the theory that the Fizz maybe introduced when connecting to Fuse or modifying the presets on the LCD panel. So I did a full Factory Restore and Presto! the bloody Fizz was still there.

I also tried multiple power points in different loactions, with and without fluro lighting in the rooms. I used expensive power boards with all sorts of RF filtering etc. But Crap! the Fizz was still there.

Now for anyone to suggest, that it may be the timber that they use in the box construction or the type of vinyl that is used in the Tolex, or perhaps the carry handle or even the Fender logo that causes the Fizz, well forget it, you crazy dimwits, they ain't the problem either.

Next, I checked for Supernatural activity using a special entity meter I developed some years ago, which can 100% detect if ghosts had infiltrated the firmware chip. But LORD Almighty! no ghosts.

Lastly, I looked carefully for signs of Anal probing by The GREYS. Sorry guys, lucked out there to.

So in summary....

The problem lies within the hardware. Either the power supply or component board. Now given this to be the case. It would be easy enough for Fender to locate the cause and believe me, they already have. So why haven't they done anything?

Because these amps are built as low margin, cheap entry level amps out of a Chinese factory with componentry that was never going to be of the highest standard and hence at least one element of these hardware components is failing fairly quickly. Fender could simply not afford the exercise to recall and fix, so they will simply stay quiet on the issue, for all eternity.

Come on guys, did you really think that you were going to get the greatest amp in the world that was bullet-proof, for a quarter the cost of a pro level amp. Don't be foolish.

I love my 2 Mustangs, even with the Fizz, because I am smart enough to realize, that they are great value for money and I simply couldn't expect the best amp in the world at this price point. They provide a reasonably decent solution that can be used on stage and in the studio via the aux port and for very little money.

i am not hanging out for a fix, cause it ain't gonna happen. I am just getting on with it and enjoying. If these Mustangs totally fail in the early years, then I'll right it off as a bad decision and won't go there again. If I am still playing them in 5 years, then they were a great acquisition at a fantastic price. Fizz or No Fizz!

8beggars


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:59 pm
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Nah, problem is, when they get to where they sound like the sound sample, they are not even usable as an actual amp. For it to be a good value, it should operate as the actual thing it's built to be, wouldn't you say? Listen to the darm sample, that would be UNUSABLE AS AN ACTUAL AMP, how could you see it any other way?

And, if Fender knows what it is, you don't think it crappy of themNOT TO TELL US what it is so that we might have it fixewd ourselves? What if we agreed to pay half the cost, or even more for Fender to fix them? Why won't they even give us a CHANCE TO WORK SOMETHING OUT with them to get them fixed? I spent 300 bucks, I am a porr musician, you think that's no beg fdeal? You must have money a plenty, but I AND MANY OTHER musicians don't. I would still be willing to pay shipping to them and like A HUNDRED DOLLARS just to get this amp to function AS AN ACTUAL AAUASABLE AMP!!. So is it fasir that they won't even admit the problem publicly and give us a chance to work something out? I would not hold it against them if they said exactly what you say, that they can't afford to fix them, and i would respect that and respect them for telling the truth, and then they could work out a deal with us to send them in to get fixed,I would gladly fork out an extra 150 bucks to get it working properly, and so would many others, tons of others.

Sorry, listen to the sample and tell me there is a reasonable excuse for not coming clean about this and trying to work with us to figure something out.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:09 pm
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Hey jeffguitar,

Never said there was a reasonable excuse and never indicated that Fender were being noble in anyway.

Fender are not going to tell you what is wrong with it. That would be admitting that there is a known defect and they would be forced under the Trades Practices Act here in Australia and similar legislation in other countries, to recall and fix every amp. It ain't gonna happen.

I feel for you if you are a struggling muso and your amp has the Fizz that bad, that you can't use it. Mate, if I had shitloads of money like you think, I wouldn't be buying an amp like this in the first place, I'd be spending up big on a series of pro amps. The fact is, that for those who don't have that much to throw around, these are a good cheap alternative, but certainly not perfect.

Have a read on any thread anywhere on the internet about, people who have bought at the bottom of the price range in amps of any brand. They all complain about some defect.

Sorry, but if you want something, that is totally reliable without glitches, you are going to have to spend some real dollars at some point. In the meantime you just have to make do. You won't find any other amp model/brand at this price point that will be any better, as a matter of fact, these Mustangs are about as good as it gets for the this amount of hard earned dollars. Sorry.

I am not saying that a design flaw in any product is acceptable. But to be honest, unless someone felt that pissed off at Fender and had the balls to take them to court over this, it is just a futile argument.

On a further point. I use my Mustangs at rehearsals and live on stage at considerable volumes and you can't detect the Fizz unless you hold a power cord or something like that at the end of a song and just let it ring out until it decays. No boby even notices it.

Maybe you have an acceptionally bad example of the problem and if it is that bad, then get of your backside and throw it at the dealer you got it from and demand your money back. Whinging about it here, won't change a bloody thing.

8beggars


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:51 am
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8beggars wrote:
Whinging about it here, won't change a bloody thing.


I, for one, intend to continue whinging about it here until Fender does something about it.

Fender: are you even trying to do something about this? I've never seen such astounding contempt for the customer in all my life.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:54 am
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F-n A. I'm so sick and tired of people b*tching about A CHEAP AMP having problems. You know why? Because IT'S A CHEAP AMP!

No, seriously, I'll say it again. IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

I'm glad that at least ONE person on this board has some perspective. Nothing's ever good enough for people. They want the cake and eat it, but not only that, the icing wasn't exactly the right flavor I wanted with my free cake, so I want to b*tch and moan about it on a forum somewhere and make it look like the problem is 10x worse than it really is.

Fender sells a LOT of these buggers and only a handful have had the fizz, but you wouldn't know that if you came on here and saw all the same people b*tching about it all the time like it's some kind of plague to mankind and we're all gonna die from bobotuber $@!& filled boils.

So I'll say it yet again. IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

Do like the man says, cough up some serious money, and buy a REAL amp if the "fizz" is that big of a deal. I got my Mustang V not to play cleans anyway (even though MINE doesn't have a fizz problem at all). I bought it so I could have a passable Mesa Boogie and Peavey amp without forking over the $5,000 for the real ones + cabs. It's not perfect, but then again, it only cost me $***. You know why?

Because IT'S A CHEAP F***ING AMP!

If I could make the text blink different colors, I'd make it do that too.

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