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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:03 pm
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It would be a fun test.

However, the truth is nobody in the audience really cares. Let's be honest - most shows sound like crap. People are there to hear the songs,see the band, have a drink, maybe even dance. They are not there for a vacuum tube experience.

Hell, I count myself as lucky if I even hear the guitars over the drums and rumbling bass.

In short, you're all a bunch of tone-nazis.

Eric


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:18 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
set to the same audible level with an A/B switch to go between the two. I would really love to see if any player could really tell the difference with any kind of repeatable accuracy - especially the so called "Tone or Tube Snobs".

O.


Your switch might kill the difference, mostly dynamics. Ever thought of that?

Cheers

David

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:53 pm
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Amerigo wrote:
Orcatraz wrote:
set to the same audible level with an A/B switch to go between the two. I would really love to see if any player could really tell the difference with any kind of repeatable accuracy - especially the so called "Tone or Tube Snobs".

O.


Your switch might kill the difference, mostly dynamics. Ever thought of that?

Cheers

David


A switch kill dynamics? Are you serious? Ever heard of an A/B switch? Next thing you know you're gonna be telling us that Bob Bradshaw never used switches on the pedal boards he designed. Ever heard of a thing called True Bypass? :roll: :roll:

O.


Last edited by Orcatraz on Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:54 pm
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The DRRI weights 43 LBs. I have a 65 Blackface Bassman (which I bought new) with a head that must weight 30 Lbs and the speaker enclosure (2-12) weights even more. I haven't weight them but I bet they weight about 75-80 Lbs together. I'll turn 64 Wednesday and I'd like something a little lighter to tote around. Also this big amp is to big for my small gigs.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:56 pm
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emcron wrote:
It would be a fun test.

However, the truth is nobody in the audience really cares. Let's be honest - most shows sound like crap. People are there to hear the songs,see the band, have a drink, maybe even dance. They are not there for a vacuum tube experience.

Hell, I count myself as lucky if I even hear the guitars over the drums and rumbling bass.

In short, you're all a bunch of tone-nazis.

Eric



I totally agree. However, I do set my tone to please only one person - me. I do it for one reason and that is, when I'm getting a sound I like out of my guitar and amp or whatever I happen to be playing through, it inspires me.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:13 am
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I often see this stated, and I agree with you - but I fear it may a little over simplified. We all can't be Steve Albini :) Us mere mortals use the decades of tone that came before us to inform our choices. We are only human and surely we must consider what our band mates or audience enjoy. On some level, at least - even unconsciously.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:17 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
jmoss wrote:
Thanks guys for all the great advice. Based on all the issues with this "fizz" that happers with the III, IV, and V (saw this on other post),I think I'll hold off getting a Mustang until Fender can fix the problem. I going to take you advice on take my guitar to the store and just sit down and play a few amps. The DRRI is still my first choice but there may be others like the Frontman 212R that may work for me. Thanks again for the advice.


Jmoss. I just did a little research and the DRRI is only 8 lbs. lighter than the Bassman. Is that still worth the expenditure to you? Doesn't seem to be much of a difference to me. I'd hang onto the Bassman.

O.

The DRRI weights 43 LBs. I have a 65 Blackface Bassman (which I bought new) with a head that must weight 30 Lbs and the speaker enclosure (2-12) weights even more. I haven't weight them but I bet they weight about 75-80 Lbs together. I'll turn 64 Wednesday and I'd like something a little lighter to tote around. Also this big amp is to big for my small gigs.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:45 am
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emcron wrote:
I often see this stated, and I agree with you - but I fear it may a little over simplified. We all can't be Steve Albini :) Us mere mortals use the decades of tone that came before us to inform our choices. We are only human and surely we must consider what our band mates or audience enjoy. On some level, at least - even unconsciously.


You're right of course. But I also think that we each can't help but put our own twist on the tones we've heard and grown to love and aspire to.

Over the years, I've also come to realize that it's not so much the amp sounds that I've wanted to get but the sounds they got on the recordings. More often than not, I found that those sounds were not easily attainable with just an amp, some pedals, a guitar and sound imparted by your fingers. I never got close to a lot of the sounds I wanted or heard in my head until modelers came along. No, most modelers don't really sound or feel like an amp. Depending on the modeler and its settings, they can (to me) sound and feel worse (Line 6) or better (Fender, Boss) at getting the sounds I'm after.

While I do love the sound of a real Deluxe, they are to me very very limited in what they can do to get the sounds I'm after. My MII just kills me with what I'm able to coax out of it. Likely though, they are tones that few would find useable.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:47 am
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jmoss wrote:
Orcatraz wrote:
jmoss wrote:
Thanks guys for all the great advice. Based on all the issues with this "fizz" that happers with the III, IV, and V (saw this on other post),I think I'll hold off getting a Mustang until Fender can fix the problem. I going to take you advice on take my guitar to the store and just sit down and play a few amps. The DRRI is still my first choice but there may be others like the Frontman 212R that may work for me. Thanks again for the advice.


Jmoss. I just did a little research and the DRRI is only 8 lbs. lighter than the Bassman. Is that still worth the expenditure to you? Doesn't seem to be much of a difference to me. I'd hang onto the Bassman.

O.

The DRRI weights 43 LBs. I have a 65 Blackface Bassman (which I bought new) with a head that must weight 30 Lbs and the speaker enclosure (2-12) weights even more. I haven't weight them but I bet they weight about 75-80 Lbs together. I'll turn 64 Wednesday and I'd like something a little lighter to tote around. Also this big amp is to big for my small gigs.


Ahh, that makes sense.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:19 pm
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Jmoss...my reccomendation? None of the above. If you mostly go for clean tones, but are looking for something less expensive than the DRRI, why not try the Hot Rod Deluxe? It's got a 100% tube signal path, has great cleans and reverbs, even does mild overdrives very nicely. It falters at higher gain settings, but that shouldn't be an issue for you. That's an amp I would highly consider if I were you.

If you have a chance to try one, you might give the Deluxe Vintage Modified a spin, too. It's got a solid state clean preamp, but tube power amp (and tube drive channel)...the one I tried sounded really nice. It costs a bit more than the HRD, but it's also got built in chorus and delay that may or may not be worth the extra cost to you.

If you're looking for something REALLY lightweight, you should check into a Tech 21 NYC Trademark 60. It's a solid state amp that has great tones...both clean and overdriven. A friend of mine has had one for years. He owns a couple tube amps as well, but still loves this one. And the Trademark 60 is special...Tech 21 NYC makes other amps, but none seem to quite live up to this one.


Last edited by Muleya on Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:46 pm
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While it's true that most people in the audience wouldn't know good tone if it hit them in the face, there are people, like me, who DO care. I appreicate good tone...so I, for one, appreciate the efforts someone goes through to sound good from stage (when I can hear them, anyway!)

As for the A/B test, I'm always interested in hearing these, too. Someone did this on the Marshall JVM forum a while back and interestingly, most of us chose the solid state Marshall over the tube Marshalls! However, while such results are interesting, I don't necessarily consider them conclusive...you never know if the person running the test has dialed in a particular amp like you would or not.

But it does show that someone who knows what he/she is doing can generally get good tones out of any amp. In fact, Neal Schon recorded an entire solo album using only a Boss G-series modeler (not sure which one), and it does sound good. And a number of other well known artists have used Line 6 equipment with good results. So while I like my tube amps, I'm not a tube snob...there are solid state and digital modelling amps that are quite convincing!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:40 pm
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Muleya wrote:
Jmoss...my reccomendation? None of the above. If you mostly go for clean tones, but are looking for something less expensive than the DRRI, why not try the Hot Rod Deluxe? It's got a 100% tube signal path, has great cleans and reverbs, even does mild overdrives very nicely. It falters at higher gain settings, but that shouldn't be an issue for you. That's an amp I would highly consider if I were you.

If you have a chance to try one, you might give the Deluxe Vintage Modified a spin, too. It's got a solid state clean preamp, but tube power amp (and tube drive channel)...the one I tried sounded really nice. It costs a bit more than the HRD, but it's also got built in chorus and delay that may or may not be worth the extra cost to you.

If you're looking for something REALLY lightweight, you should check into a Tech 21 NYC Trademark 60. It's a solid state amp that has great tones...both clean and overdriven. A friend of mine has had one for years. He owns a couple tube amps as well, but still loves this one. And the Trademark 60 is special...Tech 21 NYC makes other amps, but none seem to quite live up to this one.


I'm a Fender man all the way. I'll add these to my list. Thanks. I'll be looking at the 212R, BDRI, DRRI and HRD. I'm going to play everyone of them before I buy. Next time, I'll be able to gives some advice.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:53 pm
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Normally gig with my DRRI and play my MIII at home. Have gigged with the MIII and got great tone out of it and was sure easier to set up, used the 4 and 2 button switches. If I was just gigging, DRRI. Just playing at home MIII. Mix, you just gotta go and play them.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:16 am
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Ahh, yes...I had forgotten about the BDRI...another one that might be just the ticket. I played one in a store a few years ago and really liked it.

One question I have about those, though...I assume they are based on the earlier tweed circuit and not the blackface circuit...does anyone know if that's right?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III or DRRI
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:24 pm
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Muleya wrote:
Ahh, yes...I had forgotten about the BDRI...another one that might be just the ticket. I played one in a store a few years ago and really liked it.

One question I have about those, though...I assume they are based on the earlier tweed circuit and not the blackface circuit...does anyone know if that's right?


I can tell you mine is LOUD, hard to manage. You better be in a stadium if you are going to try and get tube overdrive with one.


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