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Post subject: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:13 pm
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Hi all, my Vypyr let me down at a gig last night so it's time to move on. I'm trying to decide between a Mustang IV and a Line 6 Spider IV 150 and I was hoping for some insight why the Mustang would be a better choice for me.

We play mainly modern alternative covers (think Foo Fighters / Weezer) so the bedroom/mega-high-gain models are worthless to me. Overall I was very happy with the sound of the Vypyr but the reliability issues were a dealbreaker. So far my only concerns with the Mustang are 1) no built-in wah functionality and 2) the footswitch only allows three presets per bank.

Anyone out there have experience with both the Line 6 and the Mustang? What made you chose the Mustang in the end? The Mustangs appear very reliable, is that the case?

Thanks and have a wonderful Christmas,

Ben

P.S. I've read about the Mustang "fizz" issue, interestingly enough I always noticed a similar problem with my Vypyr and clean sounds, albeit not quite as pronounced. I always assumed it was a "feature" of the modeling amps or the class-D power section.


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Post subject: Re: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:51 am
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Not surprised re the Vypyr - these are renowned for quality control/reliability issues and to my ears are far too digital with poor speakers. Don't get me wrong, I like Peavey - the Classic 30 & 50's are great all-valve amps.

The Line 6 is too digital & the Mustang IV is way superior to both in terms of tonal quality - but check it doesn't have the dreaded 'fizz' - some MIII/IV/V amps have this, but not all. The speakers are also decent Celestions.

Another very good amp to try is the Vox Valvetronix VT120+ (33 amp models) or the previous VT100 (22 amp models). Features wise the Mustang & Valvetronix each has their strength & weaknesses. However, the big difference is that the Valvetronix really do sound more organic & valve-like than any other modeling amp out there in the market at this price point. For clarification, the tube isn't 'hype' nor is it in the pre-amp section just to 'warm up' the amp. It's actually in the power section which is why you get dynamics, feel & response very close to an all-valve amp, with the ability to adjust real tube saturation via the Master Volume control.

A big problem for pure DSP amps such as the Mustang & Vypyr is that they can struggle to punch through the mix at gigging volume because they are more susceptable to 'Fletcher Munson curves' (hence why Line 6 tried to help combat this by adding an 'FM' switch to its Vetta II). But even this was a simulated adjustment only - it's the changing dynamics of tubes and the inter-action with speaker impedence when pushed that makes the big difference and where the valvetronix with its valve-reactor/tube circuitry has the advantage because its designed to do that.

So, if you're a gigging player its important to try amps out side by side & especially at gigging volume, to really help you make an informed decision.

I'd point you to the new stunning sounding VTX150 Pro with its EL84 tube (I have one on test, & its simply excellent) but right now this is seriously expensive as compared to the MIV and with the 1x12" extn cab and VC12SV floorcontroller (which you need for gigging) you're looking at just under £1.000 UK...& that's a serious OUCH! :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:13 am
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Rockcat,did the vox VT120+ have any kind of noise or hiss problem when you played through it? I just traded a vox AD30VT for a new vox VT20+ and this amp sounds huge for it's size but it has some line noise issues when my dehumidifier and or air purifier are on(i did not have this problem with the AD30VT) and these amps were plugged into the same power strip,i also notice a small hum in my VT20+. I just want to let you know i also tried out a vox VT40+ before i got the VT20+ and it had a real bad high level hiss problem and it seems these amps are noted for these problems if you do a google search for vox VT20+ or 40+ problems.


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Post subject: Re: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:56 pm
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Thanks for the info, Rockcat. I stopped at Guitar Center on the way home tonight, pretty much expecting to walk out with the Line 6, but... it just didn't do it for me. I just couldn't warm up to any of the amp models, even after 20-30 minutes of playing. So I switched over the Mustang IV, and everything fell into place. The amp models sounded good and I really liked where they have the treble/mid/bass controls dialed in--hard to explain but the frequency centers and Q were exactly what my ear expected.

Anyway, time to start messing with Fuse :wink:

Ben


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Post subject: Re: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:18 am
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Hey Ben,

Congrats. I'm sure you'll really like the M IV and Fender FUSE.

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Post subject: Re: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:08 pm
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Thanks, Loren!

It's a real baptism-by-fire here, bought the amp Monday, practice Tues & Thursday, then a gig Friday night. The guys in the band liked it a lot, and remarked how usable each of the amp models was. Still getting used to Fuse, so I'm slow getting around, but I'm making progress. The footswitch is a bit of a challenge for me, as I'm used to the Vypyr's layout of four presets per bank where I could quickly swap banks for different songs. But so far I'm getting around more easily than I expected, so that's promising.

About the only thing I'm struggling with is getting a really clean sound, but I think that's due more to my S-D Hot Rails pickups. Might end up swapping S-D Hot Stack pickups into my main Tele. We'll see :D

Ben


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Post subject: Re: Vypyr refugee here, why should I get a Mustang?
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:09 am
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Metalman50 wrote:
Rockcat,did the vox VT120+ have any kind of noise or hiss problem when you played through it? I just traded a vox AD30VT for a new vox VT20+ and this amp sounds huge for it's size but it has some line noise issues when my dehumidifier and or air purifier are on(i did not have this problem with the AD30VT) and these amps were plugged into the same power strip,i also notice a small hum in my VT20+. I just want to let you know i also tried out a vox VT40+ before i got the VT20+ and it had a real bad high level hiss problem and it seems these amps are noted for these problems if you do a google search for vox VT20+ or 40+ problems.


Not dis-similar to the Mustang fizz issue, customers experience can alter drastically. The loan VT40+ I had was really, really quiet - in fact you can see/hear the demo here for yourself - sorry it's a bit out of synch - duff editing software! :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2MyUNQ4ggQ

Having played the whole range of VT & VT+ amps, I've yet to find a noisy one! But I'm in UK, so perhaps this is more of an issue with 110v versions?

However, the external noise issues are not the amps fault - the more going in in an amp (high gain models, pedal effects etc) the more it might become prone to picking up external noise (same is true of any similar DSP amp). It's something you'll just have to work around eg by switching stuff off, using good quality guitar cables, checking earthing of your guitars, fixing poor mains wiring/grounding et - none of this is the amps 'fault'. The ADxxVT chromes were a lot simpler, so less things going on to attract external noise.

The quality of electricity, wiring & earthing can be the problem, particularly in the US - which is why units such as a furman line conditioner might be worth investing in. Re mains wiring/ grounding you might find this article from my good friend Retrobob helpful:

http://www.valvetronix.net/forums/model ... t4429.html

Rich :wink:

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