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Post subject: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:50 pm
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Hi there,

I'm an absolute beginner who's trying to figure out what's the best amp for playing some music at home with an electric guitar.
I don't need anything too fancy or powerful. Nonetheless, it would be nice to have an amp that provides amp modelers and enough effects to ensure some fun. That's why I narrowed my selection to Mustang I and Vypyr 15.

I've been trying to compare both Vypyr 15 and Mustang I in terms of what one has that the other lacks. One of the things that I'm trying to figure out is the the way effects work on both amps.

For instance, Vypyr 15 is commonly advertised as being able to use up to 5 simultaneous effects. I'm not sure if my "effects" they mean all those FX available on the "effects" knob (tremolo, chorus, flanger, etc).
Vypyr also has separate knobs for delay and reverb, while Mustang I has a single knob for these two rack effects. Is it fair to say that the Mustang is only able to use reverb and delay one at a time?

Vypyr also allows to edit two parameters for each selectable effect (what those parameters mean depends on the selected effect). How do you edit an effect on Mustang I? Or are you just able to select the presets using the MOD knob?

Now if you consider the Fuse software, would you say that Mustang I FX shortcomings can be overcome with the stompbox and rack effect virtual rigging?

And in general terms, why would you choose Mustang I instead of Vypyr 15 (or the other way around)?

I really appreciate any insight you can provide me, because as an absolute beginner I'm really out of the amp scene :).

Best regards.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:26 pm
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I won't dis on the Peavy as it is bad form. I was just never that crazy about the Peavy line of amps...There are some guys out there who do a great job with them tho...more power to em.

The FUSE software for the Fender is pretty awesome and they also bundle Ableton Live and IK Amplitube for Fender with the package. You can edit some parameters with the Mustang I's panel but, you only get half the picture. The FUSE software is just awesome in terms of its power and the presets you can download are WAY better than the ones that come loaded with the amp. Whenever I got bored I would just go online and download a couple of new presets and tweak them and it was like having a WHOLE new toy that would keep me occupied for hours. Thanks to the FUSE interface you also get a nice "virtual" picture of how effects work in tandem with each other and from there you can start making your own presets to fit your playing style or whatever. Later you will start developing preferences for some effects chains AND how to run them should you decide to ever get a tube amp and some stomp boxes since Fender's virtual effects really DO work like real world effects. Nice!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:49 am
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I don't have much experience with the Vyper amps, but to answer your question about the effects on the Mustang,

You can chain up to 4 effect types together (Stomp, Mod, Delay, and Reverb). And just so its clear, you can have only one of each type in your effects chain. So yes, you can have one stomp, one mod, one delay, and one reverb all at the same time.

Stomp includes: Overdrive, Fixed Wah, Touch Wah, Fuzz, Fuzz Touch Wah, Compressor, Simple Compressor

Mod includes: Sine Chorus, Triangle Chorus, Sine Flanger, Triangle Flanger, Vibratone, Vintage Tremolo, Sine Tremolo, Ring Modulator, Step Filter, Phaser, Pitch Shifter

Delay includes: Mono Delay, Mono Echo Filter, Stereo Echo Filter, Multitap Delay, Ping Pong Delay, Ducking Delay, Reverse Delay, Tape Delay, Stereo Tape Delay

Reverb includes: Small Hall, Large Hall, Small Room, Large Room, Small Plate, Large Plate, Ambient, Arena, Fender '63 Spring Reverb, Fender '65 Spring Reverb

With the Mustang I you can do some basic editing of the effects parameters with the knobs on the amp (the III and up have better onboard editing) but with FUSE you can edit any paramater on any virtual pedal just like its the real pedal.

For me the main reason I chose the Mustang over any other kind of modeling amp was the tone. To my ears the Mustang has the best overdrive tones, playing dynamics, and feel compared to any of it's competition.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:53 pm
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Thank you for your reply.

Does that apply to the Mustang I amp? And if so, is it possible to setup (or at least activate) all those 4 effects (stomp, mod, delay and reverb) at the same time directly on the amp itself, or do we have to use the Fuse software?
For instante, delay and reverb share the same knob, so how can you select both of them with a single knob?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:30 pm
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At some point, to fully customize your tone, you will NEED to use FUSE. Use it to create the kind of tone you want for a specific preset, then save it to the amp. Then, you can just turn to it later without FUSE and get the same thing.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:34 am
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I owned the Peavey Vypyr 30 before selling it and buying a Mustang III.

The Vypyr interface was annoying, and I couldn't seem to get clean distortion out of it for the life of me. I also didn't like it's clean tones.

The Mustang has FUSE, which I would say makes it worth it alone. You will be very happy with the amount of customization you can do with the amp using it. Fender really set the bar of where the multi-amp-effect amps need to go. I love all the amp models, it does amazing cleans, and you can dial in some very heavy distortions. It does it all. Happy with the move I took.

Edit: Also, the Mustang effects all have far more customization than the Vypyr had. With the Vypyr you generally have two knobs for each effect. With the Mustang, each effect can have 4, sometimes 5 options you can set. It can get crazy with the amount of options.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:26 pm
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Well, in the end I decided to purchase the Mustang I. After dwelling on the music store this afternoon, I grabbed one of these units and took it home.

I still didn't explore it, but hopefully I won't regret it (I'm a beginner guitar player, so I'm sure that the Mustang I will offer more than I expect anyway :)).


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:42 pm
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I don't know anything about the Peavy amp but the Mustang 1 would make a great beginner amp. I'm an old timer and started out with more expensive Fender tube amps back in the day (Champ, Princeton Reverb, Vibrolux reverb) but I would have had a lot more fun, learned to play faster, and understood effects and guitar tones earlier if I could have started out on a Mustang 1.

About the only shortcoming I can think of is that since it doesn't have an effects loop there isn't a perfect way to use a looper with it. A looper is another tool that would be good for a beginner to have. Still, you can use a looper with the Mustang 1, it's just not perfect.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:18 am
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I've been playing guitar for some 40 years so I think it's safe to say that I have a little experience. My suggestion is likely to be unpopular, but if you're a complete beginner and seriously want to learn how to play rather just make a noise, I don't recommend you buy ANY modeling amp.

When you start out, learning good technique and feel is the single most important thing. You really don't want to be confused by umpteen different amp models & effects that will distract you.

I recommend you start off with a simple small tube amp - nothing will help you more in learning to play, because its touch sensitivity and playing dynamics is less forgiving than a modeling amp but it can be way more rewarding. At the beginning the only effect I'd recommend to start with is a reverb pedal (if the amp has no reverb). Chorus, delay and compressor are the only other effects you'll initially need as you progress and that will be plenty to get your head around.

I realise cost is likely to be an issue and temptation of the wizadry in these low cost amps is very tempting. But IMHO these aren't the right thing for you.

I'd recommend something like a Vox AC4TV. These come in several sizes. All are 4 watts (these are all-tube, so much louder than you might think!) - the 'Mini' has a 6.5" speaker and retails at about £150, there is also an 8" and 10" speaker version. I recommend the 10", which can be bought for between £160-180. The amp is desperately simple to operate - it has a tone, volume, and power-selector switch that can be set for 1/4, 1, or 4 watts - so you can play it at home without upsetting anyone.

These are gorgeous sounding little amps. The advantage of a responsive all valve amp is that it will help you learn about developing tone using the controls of your guitar i.e. volume & tone roll off - a technique that is sadly not learned by a lot of players. There are other small all-valve amps around so do try out others too - but I genuinely think the AC4's are very hard to beat as a great value and great sounding little amp. They also come with an extn cab out - you'll be amazed at how loud 4 tube watts is through a 2x12" cab or even a 4 x 12" cab!!

Re effects, to keep it simple and keep cost down forget all the new complex FX & MFX pedals - at the moment these are overkill. Individual Behringer pedals are great value & sound great. Or, buy a secondhand basic Boss FX pedal like a Boss BE5 or a Boss BE5M (the latter lets you save settings & recall them). These are 'old technology' and you can pick them up ridiculously cheaply - but they sound great and they'll give you overdrive, delay, chorus & compressor in one box - but nothing else is in there to distract or confuse you. A Behringer reverb pedal is about £15-18. A BE5M is currently on Ebay for £7.50!! (no power supply, but there's a Boss power-supply on there for £5.99 too!).

So you don't need to spend a fortune on effects - But its the amp that's most important. If you're interested, here's a demo of the AC4TV I did on you-tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uYPvM6 ... ature=plcp

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:01 am
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@Rockcat, I respect your opinion and more or less agree with what you're saying. In fact, for much of the same reasons you cite, one could argue that an absolute beginner do away with an electric rig all together and learn on an acoustic guitar. But its neither here nor there as he already said he bought the Mustang I. Sure, in an ideal world a tube amp and a few starter pedals would be, ... ideal. But the Mustang I is as close to ideal as your going to get for a hundered dollar bill. Which is why, IMHO, it is the perfect amp for an absolute beginner.

@nfh, Rockcat makes some good points. As an absolute beginner you are going to be doing a lot of single note picking and chord strumming. You should do this with little or no distortion so you can hear clear sounding notes. Experiment as you will, but don't get caught up in "tweaking" at the expense of learning to play with good technique. As you progress in your learning, so will also you progress through the treasure trove of tones and effects contained in the Mustang. It's a great way to find out what works for you as you become more proficient. One day when you outgrow the Mustang I and are ready for an upgrade, you'll have a good understanding of the gear you need/want.

BTW Rockcat, great demo. Thanks for the GAS attact.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:52 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
@Rockcat, he already said he bought the Mustang I. ....BTW Rockcat, great demo. Thanks for the GAS attact.


Doh - didn't see that! :oops: But glad you liked the demo. :)

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:49 am
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Rockcat wrote:
Scorpaeon wrote:
@Rockcat, he already said he bought the Mustang I. ....BTW Rockcat, great demo. Thanks for the GAS attact.


Doh - didn't see that! :oops: But glad you liked the demo. :)


The funny thing is that I was thinking exactly what you posted....old guys are all alike I guess...LOL


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:14 am
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Hey Rockcat, good call on the Beri pedals. I had a few multi effects and I could never get the tone I wanted. So before I spent a lot of money on pedals I bought the Beri Pedals to do some experimenting with to see if that was how I wanted to go. I recently boxed them up with a bunch of other pedals and sent them to a fellow musician down in Texas so he can do the same...

The ones I recommend are:
Beri's
Behringer DD400 Digital Stereo Delay/Echo $37.99
Behringer VD400 Vintage Analog Delay $23.99
Behringer EQ700 Graphic Equalizer $23.99
Behringer Compressor-Sustainer CS400 $23.99
Behringer TO800 Vintage Tube Overdrive $37.99

Boss
Boss DS1 Distortion $49.00

I bought a DanoElectro 9 volt power adapter and one of those multi tap power cords for 7 pedals and it worked great for all of the pedals except for some reason the Analog Delay one only liked it's own, so I bought another for power adapter for it. Also got a cheap pack of hosa jumper cables to daisy chain them together.

Then I cut me a piece of plywood 19" x 18" and screwed a 19" 2 x 4 edgewise to it, drilled a couple of holes, painted it black and put the pedals on it.

For the amp I would recommend to get a small tube amp that had an effects loop. The small ones I have been looking at are the Laney Cub 12R and the Laney Cub Head.

I currently have a Blues Jr. and a Blues Deluxe Reissue and the Blues Deluxe sounds sounds awesome with the modulation effects in the loop, the Blues Jr. not so good with the modulation because it is going straight in, because it does not have an effects loop.

I also have a Mustang V Head with a 2 x 12 extension and it gets a pretty decent tone for practicing and not having to lug a ton of pedals around. I have a Fulltone Fulldrive 2 with MOSFET and it really treats that amp right when I punch it on. I also have a Hardwire CM-2 Tube Overdrive that sounds good with it, so when I do a practice jam I just take those two pedals my Vox Wah, Bud Wah, 2 x 12 extension Cab and the Mustang V and I am done...

I also recommend a good loop pedal, because some folks like to try and teach you stuff and get mad when you don't learn it fast enough, so they can do some lead breaks over their boring chord changes. So I stick the loop pedal in their effects chain and when they want to do that I tell them to loop the MF. I have a Boss RC3...

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang I vs Vypyr 15 for a beginner
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:13 pm
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Glad you got the Mustang I. Be sure to make use of FUSE, though...with a little tweaking in FUSE you can greatly improve upon the tone of at least some of the presets.

I'm going to differ with Rockcat here, though. While I agree it's more important to develop technique than to tweak, I do think a modeler is a decent first amp. While I understand that the array of choices can be dizzying, I think it can also help you to figure out what kinds of tones you prefer and may be helpful if/when you decide to invest in a more expensive amp.

Another consideration is, if you like high gain tones, you're going to be very disappointed with those small Vox tube amps...they aren't going to get anywhere near the kind of gain you're looking for. Granted, most newbies use more gain than they really need, but those Voxes just don't do modern high gain tones...they'd be great for doing Rolling Stones covers and maybe Stevie Ray Vaughn and some Hendrix, but not much more than that. You could always buy a pedal, but then your getting into more money.

Of course, the other down side is it's going to be hard to get clean tones out of it if you need more volume...like if you're jamming with friends or playing with a band. You can probably get the amp loud enough, but it will definitely be overdriving at that point.

However, a small tube amp I might consider would be one of the Blackstar HT series amps...the HT-5R, for example...but that's going to set you back 4X the cost of a Mustang I.


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