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Post subject: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:44 pm
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I seek a honest opinion from you, Mustang 3 owners:

I am about to get a new amp (this week possibly) and I seek advice on the options since I'm no expert on the matter. My needs are:

1 - Weekly rehearsal with my band (just 1 guitar, very loud drummer)
2 - Live gigs in local clubs and air open venues (small to medium sized), 1 maybe 2 times / week (sometimes links to PA's won't be an option).
3 - Live gigs have 3 hours of continuous playing.

Considering my investment conditions I narrowed the options down to these two amps: Frontman 212r and Mustang III.

I just love the tech incorporated to the M3. Such a sexy box! But, will it behave as loud and fully as the FM212r? I mean. both are 100W transistored but the FM sure have a extra voice inside the cabinet. Right?

I'm ok and very used to "off-amp" effects… but the possibilities of the M3 are very attractive!

Also is the FM212r more rugged and resistant then the M3? I Know it is heavier but will it stand better the constant push from gigs?

You may be asking yourselves "why just not go for the M4 dude??"… shell. I live in a country (Brazil) where you pay taxes just to breathe… so, imagine importing tech… very nasty.

The M3 and the FM 212 are both the same price around here… the go about US$1000,00 in local stores. The M4 would be around US$1600,00… Insane! I know. But… whatever.

Lastly, the consumer experience for me matters a lot. I mean yould go for the FM212r without any concern on quality, since it has a road behind and good reviews have been placed for it for a while now… and here the new sexy M3 with all its juice BUT.. that famous FIZZ ghost. I know.. try it before you buy it.. sure. But if the thing fizzes on me a week after I'm gone from the store.. I would stick with it for good.

(if taxes are bad here… the consumer respect level drops to such scary levels that you guys wouldn't believe…)

Only on this this matter it is more value a good, solid, strong, frill-less and fizz-less, known FM212.

But let me get your thoughts...

What you guys suggest? The FM212r or the M3?

Thank you


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:37 am
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Anyone? :shock:


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:10 pm
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I owned 212r, had it for about 3 years and was very satisfied with it, however slowly I grew a bit tired of the same tone again and again. It is true that I never had any external multi-effects linked to it so I can't really compare the difference between how each amp handles delays or compressors or stuff like that, but after I heard of the new Mustang series and tried one out, I was stunned at how great it sounds. I bought a Mustang IV (4 button footswitch instead of 2-button footswitch + additional 50 Wattage of power for about 100€ difference in price, it was no brainer for me, even though I was, like you are, on a tight budget) and now I wouldn't switch it back for a 212r, no way. I can easily play it more quietly than the 212r (even though it's 150W amp and not 100W like 212r) and I can basically get any sound I want from it. Even if I had had multi-effects linked with 212r, I doubt I would have been able to produce all these sounds and at the same time be able to program it the same way as I am able to program my IV, so I can easily use a lot of different presets during a gig. Not to mention multi-effects which you can program aren't exactly cheap, so if you are on a tight budget, Mustang is the way to go when it comes to versatility and sound.

The only thing I dislike about the mustangs is how quickly amp enters tuner mode, when holding the change mode/tuner button on footswitch, but my issue has been addressed and forwarded to R&D teams at Fender :)

Hope you find my impression of the two amplifiers useful ;)

~N

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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:44 pm
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I have a Mustang III and I jam with a guy that has a Frontman 212r. The Frontman has some great sounds and is simpler to use, but it's no where near as versatile as the Mustang.

On the other hand, if you get the Mustang, plan on spending an awful lot of time getting to know each amp model & cabinet combination, and each effect. Some effects sound great at low gain, some at high gain.

I'd say that the Frontman covers just about everything you really need in an amp, but if you want extraordinary versatility - go with the Mustang.

With the Mustang you really get to know the subtilities of amps & effect. But plan on exploring the possibilities becoming a hobby in and of itself.

I'd also say that if your really planning on success in the the music business, a Mustang gives you the opportunity to find a sound that's uniquely your own - without having to by a dozen high priced amps.


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:18 pm
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Go for the Mustang... just my 2 cents as someone who once owned a Frontman and now owns an MIII. I didn't happen to find the Frontman a very usable amp and as I've stated on numerous posts, the best tones I was ever able to get out of the Frontman are comparable to the worst tones I've gotten out of the MIII.

I'm sure a lot of it is personal preference, but I don't think there's much comparison... go with the MIII and I think you'll be happy you did. It really isn't that hard to get some great tones out of it with minimal tweaking of the settings.


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:37 am
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I'd just like to add that, like Richard said, when you buy a Mustang you must be willing to spend quite a lot of time to really find the tones you're looking for. Sometimes a simple cabinet change will do, sometimes you'll have to add some effects, sometimes if you add an effect before amp it'll sound awful for your taste while if you added the effect in fx loop it would sound awesome.. You have to spend quite some time with tweaking the presets to your liking, but once you get a general idea what you have to do and what you have to change to get your own unique sound you dreamed of - you'll really love Mustang. That's something you can't do with 212r and that is, at least in my opinion, one of the biggest advantages Mustang series have over pretty much every other both transistor and tube amplifiers.

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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:41 am
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Richard001, Neimenljivi, and JamGuy

Thank you VERY much for your time and thoughts!! I've been asking alot of people about thease amps and you guys passed me alot of user pecetpion (that's what I've been loking for).

The last doubts I have:

- Will the M3 behave as loud and power as the FM212r? Specially you guys that owed the FM before, or you that play side by side with both side by side, is the M3 as strong as the FM212r for live pressure sound?

-Also, did any of you have the famous Fizz problem? If yes, is it really limitating?

Thank you


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:35 pm
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I can't compare the difference in volume much because I own Mustang IV which is 50W louder, but one thing I find great about Mustang is that you can just as easily play it at low volumes as well, something I couldn't do with Frontman 212r. My 150W Mustang can be easily played more quietly than the 100W Frontman I used to have which is, when it comes to practising a song at home, a big advantage. Not to mention the possibility of listening the sound through the headphones.
But you can really crank up the volume, with M3 as well I believe, just by playing with the advanced amp settings. So while I can't tell you if it behaves as loud and powerful as 212r, I can tell you that the sound is BIG (at least with M4, but I am positive the M3 is pretty much the same).

Even though M4 and M3 both have/had the fizz problem I haven't encountered any fizz problems with my amp yet, and I bought it about 3 months ago.
Rest assured with this amp - even the sky is not a limit anymore ;)

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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:00 pm
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Hey SouthSoul...

So my comparison is a bit off too. I had a Frontman 65 but it had a 12" speaker so in that regard it would compare to the MIII. I think it would have plenty of juice to play most small to medium sized venues. I never played them side by side...I traded the FM in on the MIII and I'm stoked I did. I play mostly classic rock and jam bandy blues, funk rock jazz...no metal.

As far as the "F" word... I've learned not to stir the pot here on the forum regarding the topic. I guess mine has a little bit I don't notice it... maybe I don't even have it at all, I really don't know. Those who do have it seem very bothered by it. Two things... just try it before you play it, if you like it and don't notice the fizz, then go for it. Also, I've got a bunch of vids posted using the amp with various guitars so have a listen for yourself. They're all recorded using the video on my camera with no external effects...just a loop pedal and the onboard effects on the amp.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FunkyMrFresh?feature=mhee


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:14 am
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I would go for the Mustang III.
They are great and I can get every sound I want.
I am the only guitar player in the band with a drummer and bass player.
Playing Pop,Rock,Punk and Metal.
The Mustang III is superloud.
Believe me I have played over lots of things in different set ups.
Marshall JCM 900,Roland JC-120 with Boss GT10, Vox Tonelabs and Line6 Pod X3.
For me the Mustang III is a winner.
My only complain about the Mustang III was, that it didn't came with the 4-way button switch.
But now that I have one I am really getting everything I need out of the Mustang III.
The only thing you need beside it is a Wah-pedal if you want to use one.


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:09 pm
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Hello,

First of all a big THANK YOU for sharing your experience!! Helped me alot!!

Yesterday I decided for a GO on the M3. YES!!! After testing it ALOT in a local store and making sure not to hear any sound close to fizz samples around.... took the deal! Man... this baby can talk! Can't stop playing it and I can see why you talk about "the sky beeing the limit"! Cool sounds, really beatiful tones.

Today I played it with my band and.. Well... rock an roll baby! you can picture a happy person. It did the job, very well! I still have to learn and work on the right tones for me, but i can feel the potential :)

Also on the "F" subject (sorry if it is a bit off-topic): i did mess around a little with fender fuse... and in one setting i found it to sound close the "f"s samples posted. I got scared to hell at first.. but... than I noticed some settings in particular that made it behave that way: Amps (57 deluxe and 59 bassman, mainly) with full gain applied! sounded "fizzy" on long notes.
Turning the gain to lower levels and raising the master and/or volume knobs, sounded ok. That also happened on when playing output to earphones. Meanwhile, I cant get that result on the other models (the 65 delux reverb, for example, sounds clean and normal to me) even with full gain. So, seems to be something related to amp simulation behavior, I don't know... can you confirm that experience?

Anyway I will look out for any diferent sounds from here on.. if anything different appears, report i will.

So that's it friends, thank you again for your thoughts :)


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:23 pm
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Glad we could help mate :)
Rock on!

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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:45 am
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Hey SouthSoulGuitar,

Congrats on your purchase. The MIII is actually my favorite model and in my opinion the best bang for the buck.

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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:49 am
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So true! Sound, weight, looks... I'm loving it! :):):)


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Post subject: Re: Help: Frontman 212r or Mustang III?
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:42 pm
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Dear friends,

Honeymoon is over… the M3 "fizzed" on me. :(

Everything was going like a charm but last sunday on a quiet room session i started to notice the so feared sound. Tested various clean settings and there it was. Famous fizz. Also in the non-clean settings the fizz IS noticeable (if you are trained to hear it). I also suspect that it contributes to non-definite and unclear note sound (noticed when playing with the band, the sound was not clear, had to put too much power to get definition [even on basic amp settings, eg. just amp activated]).

Well I took it to the store on wednesday and I couldn't reproduce the fizz (the environment was very noisy) and I began to sound a little crazy, judging by the salesman's look. But they were very, I mean VERY receptive to my dissatisfaction, and exchanged the fizzy mustang for another zero one. Tested there and zero fizz (at least in that noisy environment).

At home I tested the new M3 and… fizz again, out of the box (quiet room)! This time I recorded to play the next day at the store. So there I went and when I showed the recording, there was no question. At all… and I earned back everyone's sane look! haha

They didn't question my point and offered to exchange by another model. Well here I would like to add: CONGRATS to this store! Very rare behavior here in Brazil. I must recommend this guys to everyone!

I am very very happy that I could recover my purchase and so I took a Frontman 212r! Great amp, the clean sound is amazing (I really need that clean).

The M3 is a great concept, loved to play with fender-fuse and mix the possibilities. But the fizz was a real deal breaker.

Thank you guys anyway for the help and references


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