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Post subject: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:37 am
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When I first got this amp about 6 months ago, I was liking it. Great flexibility, and pretty good tube sounds. Then I got "The Twin", the Fender red knob evil twin. Now that is what a Fender amp is supposed to sound like. I thought the Mustang nailed a lot of tube Fender sound, but the real thing is just amazing. I will have to go back to using pedals, but that's like having to use a key to open the door of a '65 Mustang car vs. keyless entry on a new Mustang car. A little more work for the real thing, but much more worth it.


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:16 pm
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ok, bye then.


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:25 am
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The Mustangs are great sounding modeling amps at a very competitive cost, which are very convenient to use. But you can't beat the tone from a good all-tube amp.

Amps are tools - there are no 'rights or wrongs' here. It's all about finding the right tool for your needs. I actually have different types of amps for different needs:

1. Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX with VC12 controler and AD212 extn cab (Hybrid, valves and modeling). Most versatile gigging rig I've ever had, that can be plugged straight into the PA too via line-outs. Great tone (but a bulky/heavy set-up).

2. Laney VC30-210 plus 1x12 extn cab. All-tube, class A, fabulous cleans, sounds great with pedal-board/Tonelab ST, loads of speaker connection options, but it's seriously loud and not at its best for home use at low volumes - those valves need to be pushed!

3. Laney Cub12R - small 1x12" all-valve amp with 'under 1w' input (fab for cranking at home) and normal 15w input. Built in tilt stand, FX loop, 8/16 Ohm extn cab out. Great sounding, but will sound even better when I replace the budget Celestion Rocket 40 with a Celestion Vintage 30.

4. Marshall Valvestate 8080 1x12", 2-channel hybrid with 12AX7 in the pre-amp section of distortion channel, and a Celestion 1x12 G12T75. Loud, reasonably light, utterly reliable, and still my back-up amp.

5. Vox Mini 3 that can run on batteries or mains. Modeling, effects, very small/light, 5" speaker but sounds surprisingly good and louder than you'd expect - brilliant for playing in the garden, home, or taking round to friends for a quiet jam.

Each has its own character, pro's/cons, and I love each one for different things and use them in diffferent situations.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:53 am
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Rockcat wrote:
The Mustangs are great sounding modeling amps at a very competitive cost, which are very convenient to use. But you can't beat the tone from a good all-tube amp.

Amps are tools - there are no 'rights or wrongs' here. It's all about finding the right tool for your needs. I actually have different types of amps for different needs:

1. Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX with VC12 controler and AD212 extn cab (Hybrid, valves and modeling). Most versatile gigging rig I've ever had, that can be plugged straight into the PA too via line-outs. Great tone (but a bulky/heavy set-up).

2. Laney VC30-210 plus 1x12 extn cab. All-tube, class A, fabulous cleans, sounds great with pedal-board/Tonelab ST, loads of speaker connection options, but it's seriously loud and not at its best for home use at low volumes - those valves need to be pushed!

3. Laney Cub12R - small 1x12" all-valve amp with 'under 1w' input (fab for cranking at home) and normal 15w input. Built in tilt stand, FX loop, 8/16 Ohm extn cab out. Great sounding, but will sound even better when I replace the budget Celestion Rocket 40 with a Celestion Vintage 30.

4. Marshall Valvestate 8080 1x12", 2-channel hybrid with 12AX7 in the pre-amp section of distortion channel, and a Celestion 1x12 G12T75. Loud, reasonably light, utterly reliable, and still my back-up amp.

5. Vox Mini 3 that can run on batteries or mains. Modeling, effects, very small/light, 5" speaker but sounds surprisingly good and louder than you'd expect - brilliant for playing in the garden, home, or taking round to friends for a quiet jam.

Each has its own character, pro's/cons, and I love each one for different things and use them in diffferent situations.

Rich :wink:


Good point. If I had the room and money I would have kept the Mustang IV to mess around with. I've tried the Vox you are talking about and those had a really good sound too.


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:38 am
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I know what you mean, but there's just no way to own all the amps and effects available for the money. Besides to most people who might be listening to your performance they can't tell the difference. Hope you enjoy your Twin


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:58 am
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Roger L. wrote:
I know what you mean, but there's just no way to own all the amps and effects available for the money. Besides to most people who might be listening to your performance they can't tell the difference. Hope you enjoy your Twin


Absoloutely! And even so called tube purists can't either. I remember a gig a couple of years back when some older guys complementd me after the gig saying what I great tone I had and that it was a pleasure to see someone using a good all-valve Vox AC30 and not 'that new fangled modeling rubbish'. I led the guys on a bit...but you should have seen their gob-smacked faces when I showed the amp was a Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX - ie that 'new fangled modelling rubbish'! LOL

To be fair, they readily admitted it completely changed their views on modeling amps as they had in mind Line 6 gear (which was quite digital sounding) and loved the hybrid concept - one of the guys was going to immediately check out the amp himself as it solved so many tone changing issues for him when gigging.

I think the type of stuff you play is a key factor. For covers, nothing beats the flexibility of a good modeling amp. But if I'm just playing one genre (eg blues) where I only need a few basic tones, then my Laney VC30-210 rig and pedal board (or TLST that fits nicely in my cable bag) is brilliant. The Cub is just perfect for small club stuff and lets me 'travel light' with the TLST where I can carry amp, guitar & cable bag in 2 hands without breaking a sweat!

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:15 am
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This is the problem with all those tube snobs, many would not even try a modeling amp out on there own thinking how could a modeling amp sound better then my great tube amp. just look how far amp modeling technology progressed, in another 5 years most tube amps will be a boat anchor, that is how good amp modeling will get in the future in my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:00 pm
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Skirt So Plain wrote:
Metalman50 wrote:
This is the problem with all those tube snobs, many would not even try a modeling amp out on there own thinking how could a modeling amp sound better then my great tube amp. just look how far amp modeling technology progressed, in another 5 years most tube amps will be a boat anchor, that is how good amp modeling will get in the future in my opinion.


I hope you're right, because I can't afford tube amps after I get done paying my ex wife the "child support" (I love my kids--not complaining there) that she uses to pay her rent.

I'm counting on going all the way to the top of the charts with my Mustang IV!!!

8)


Amen to that Brother :D

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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:14 pm
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Metalman50 wrote:
This is the problem with all those tube snobs, many would not even try a modeling amp out on there own thinking how could a modeling amp sound better then my great tube amp. just look how far amp modeling technology progressed, in another 5 years most tube amps will be a boat anchor, that is how good amp modeling will get in the future in my opinion.


I asked my 8 ball a few times to be sure and here is what it said:

● Don't count on it
● My reply is no
● My sources say no
● Outlook not so good
● Very doubtful


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:04 pm
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Well i guess you might be a tube snob yourself and cannot accept change? just look at how much faster and improved computers are now compared to five years ago,the same goes for amp modeling,in the future amp modeling will be so good that even the pro's will not be able to tell the difference between amp modeling and tube amps,it is almost to that point now so i would count on it and my outlook says yes it is most likely to happen.


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:07 pm
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Metalman50 wrote:
Well i guess you might be a tube snob yourself and cannot accept change? just look at how much faster and improved computers are now compared to five years ago,the same goes for amp modeling,in the future amp modeling will be so good that even the pro's will not be able to tell the difference between amp modeling and tube amps,it is almost to that point now so i would count on it and my outlook says yes it is most likely to happen.


Yea, and just look at how much guitars are improved now compared to 60 years ago. Oh wait - I guess they're not - never mind.

Maybe modeling will get to a point where people really can't tell the difference but you're counting your chickens before they hatch. Good musical instruments are sensitive devices, not to mention the folks playing them - it's hard to make clones using different technologies. Heck, it's hard to make clones using the same technology! And beyond that reality there's the "perception" people have about the instruments they're playing, which, humans being - well human, matters. Just look at how many folks are willing to pay more for a tired old Fender amp when for the same money they can get a brand new one with basically the same design. The first thing they do with their new old amp is take it in for major service. That's the nature of the musical instrument biz.

A good comparison is to look at the analog synth market. People who crave Moogs aren't thinking that a new synth modeler is about to replace their analog Moog filters. Yet as far as I can tell there are plenty of great sounding digital synths.

As for me. Well I'm liking my Mustang amp. I wanted a small practice amp that I could use with headphones and it's better than I was expecting. It's a lot of fun. It has lots of good sounds. My tube amp is a whole different thing, at this point it's silly to compare them. Maybe in five years - if you're right. I wouldn't hold my breath.


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:19 am
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Metalman50 wrote:
This is the problem with all those tube snobs, many would not even try a modeling amp out on there own thinking how could a modeling amp sound better then my great tube amp. just look how far amp modeling technology progressed, in another 5 years most tube amps will be a boat anchor, that is how good amp modeling will get in the future in my opinion.


This is so true. When I brought my G-Dec 30 (blues) home, I put it next to my first-generation Blues Jr. and my Princeton Recording Amp. As soon as the two tube amps saw the G-Dec, they fled for the nearest lagoon, hoping to catch on as boat anchors. No amount of pleading on my part could change their minds. :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:13 pm
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The only SNOBS in the valve versus modelling debate, are the musicians themselves.

Most of us either play live in front of an audience, or will at some point further down the track. The percentage of musicians in an audience, is either very low, or non existent and for the odd muso that wants to come up and give you his opinion on the sound of your amp and waffle on bullshit about how much better you would sound with a valve, my response is always, if your such a fine musician, why is that I am gigging on a weekend and your not.

It pisses me off to listen to arm chair critics within our own ranks.

The truth is that the audience hasn't got a clue what your playing through and as long as it sounds right and you are playing stuff that they can relate to, you will always get applause and positive feedback. That's what it's all about my friends, the audience, not some tube snob. As long as you come off stage on a high, then you should be happy.

I can qualify what I am saying, as I have spent most of my career playing through tube amps. Vox AC30's, Hotrod's, Twins, Marshalls blah blah blah and why have I owned and changed so many amps over the years. Because I could never find a good all round amp that I was happy with. All of these amps sounded good, but all had ther own unique sound that would suit some songs and not a lot of others.

Move forward 50 years in Technology and hey presto, we have a credible modeller that gives us players doing covers, the variety of sounds that we need, that also sound damned authentic and $@!&, all of this for less than half the price of a SNOB. Money well spent. The money I saved on the amp and the money I will save having new valves etc. replaced all the time, I can now go out and buy another guitar to add to my collection.

Don't get me wrong, my current tube amp works fantastic. The way it holds my studio door open. The best damn door stop I ever bought, bar none.

8beggars


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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:28 am
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Without doubt the very best DSP modeling amp I've ever hear/played is the (now discontined) Hughes & Kettner Zentera. A 200w 2x12" combo (there was a head too) that was built like a tank with uber-top quality components inc. 2 x 32 point Sharc processors, that sounded & felt so close to an all-tube amp that any slight difference is truly minimal even for tube-purists - the tone, punch, touch & playing dynamics were all there in spades & it genuinely sounded better than a lot of tube amps I've played. Highly sought after, used and retained by pro-players, these rarely hit the second-hand market as they're (rightly) still regarded as the 'holy grail' of modeling amps. But new, with the stageboard, these beasts cost £2,500! So the technology was already there years ago, but it's the cost that's the killer and you ain't going to get that type of quality for a 'mass market' amp costing £250!

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Sold my Mustang IV
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:25 pm
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Metalman50 wrote:
Just look at how much faster and improved computers are now compared to five years ago,the same goes for amp modeling,in the future amp modeling will be so good that even the pro's will not be able to tell the difference between amp modeling and tube amps,it is almost to that point now so i would count on it and my outlook says yes it is most likely to happen.
This is pretty much how I feel. I think guitar amps are going to be a bit like keyboards are now - just punch in the sound you want and go - no one thinks twice about it. I saw Steely Dan in Durham, NC earlier this month - the 2nd keyboard player was hauling around a full Steinway on tour. Do you think 1 person in the audience would have been able to tell the real deal from a multi-sampled patch in a concert setting like that... hardly. Guitar amps will be the same way within just a few years - listen to the $2200 Fractal Axe Fx and you might think we're already there. Mustangs are a view of the future - I love my three Mustangs and haven't even turned on one of my tube amps in months (the ones I haven't sold!). Best cure for amp and effects GAS there is. :)


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