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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:44 am
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depepat wrote:
Of the 100 factory presets on the III, IV and V, apart from the bare-bones un-effected amp models I reckon there are only about a dozen others that I can seriously imagine myself using, and some of those need quite a bit of tweaking for my taste. But I fully understand that others will disagree.

What I don't really get is why the factory preset styles are so scatter-gunned across the 100 slots. I know that they can be rearranged by a user with a bit of effort, but why not 'group' them in the factory set up - clean, drive, crunch, high gain etc. Would save a lot of dialling.



Must agree with you. Great idea. :o


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:49 am
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rybgood wrote:
depepat wrote:
Of the 100 factory presets on the III, IV and V, apart from the bare-bones un-effected amp models I reckon there are only about a dozen others that I can seriously imagine myself using, and some of those need quite a bit of tweaking for my taste. But I fully understand that others will disagree.

What I don't really get is why the factory preset styles are so scatter-gunned across the 100 slots. I know that they can be rearranged by a user with a bit of effort, but why not 'group' them in the factory set up - clean, drive, crunch, high gain etc. Would save a lot of dialling.



Must agree with you. Great idea. :o

+1

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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:09 am
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What I don't really get is why the factory preset styles are so scatter-gunned across the 100 slots. I know that they can be rearranged by a user with a bit of effort, but why not 'group' them in the factory set up - clean, drive, crunch, high gain etc. Would save a lot of dialling.[/quote]


That would be nice but the amp's architecture doesn't really support that right now. They probably didn't want to copy Line6's method of doing this (A: the fear of being labeled a "spider clone", and B: possibly being sued over design patents by Line6). For what it's worth it would have been nice for Fender to at least have done a rough outline of amp models that work in groups of 3....:1 is a clean model, 2 is a crunch model and 3 is a high gain or lead sound....on up to 100. But hey...doing your own programming is easy with Fuse and so is backing up your old presets before over writing them so, all if this is really a minor issue.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:36 pm
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mortalengines wrote:
What I don't really get is why the factory preset styles are so scatter-gunned across the 100 slots. I know that they can be rearranged by a user with a bit of effort, but why not 'group' them in the factory set up - clean, drive, crunch, high gain etc. Would save a lot of dialling.



That would be nice but the amp's architecture doesn't really support that right now. They probably didn't want to copy Line6's method of doing this (A: the fear of being labeled a "spider clone", and B: possibly being sued over design patents by Line6). For what it's worth it would have been nice for Fender to at least have done a rough outline of amp models that work in groups of 3....:1 is a clean model, 2 is a crunch model and 3 is a high gain or lead sound....on up to 100. But hey...doing your own programming is easy with Fuse and so is backing up your old presets before over writing them so, all if this is really a minor issue.[/quote]
+1+1


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:02 pm
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depepat wrote:
Maybe there would be more incentive to dig deeper and play with these advanced amp settings if they were covered in the amp or FUSE manuals. For example, I really had no clear idea what sag and bias were, and how they might affect the tone, until I did a search for them on the Net.


I agree. The manuals are sketchy at best.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:19 pm
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shark707 wrote:
depepat wrote:
Maybe there would be more incentive to dig deeper and play with these advanced amp settings if they were covered in the amp or FUSE manuals. For example, I really had no clear idea what sag and bias were, and how they might affect the tone, until I did a search for them on the Net.


I agree. The manuals are sketchy at best.


I still haven't really even messed with the sag settings for the Mustang. Somehow I get the impression that it's for the ultra anal amp tweaking crowd....I thought I was a member of that one for a while but, then I checked out the Modern Amplifier section of this forum. Whew! Those guys are a breed apart!


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:04 am
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mortalengines wrote:
I still haven't really even messed with the sag settings for the Mustang. Somehow I get the impression that it's for the ultra anal amp tweaking crowd....I thought I was a member of that one for a while but, then I checked out the Modern Amplifier section of this forum. Whew! Those guys are a breed apart!


...I fiddle with the sag settings on every patch to hear how it alters the sound -- more buttons means more options, more creativity! Less sag makes the sound mushy, dark, distant depending up on the amp being used, with more sag...brightness, brittle, less presence. I usually settle on 50% cuz I get the bottom end, middle, and brightness, not too bright, not too dark and mushy. But, sometimes dark and mushy or bright is good and I settle on dark and mushy or bright n' brittle.

What's going on in the Modern Amplifier section of this forum? :P


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:44 am
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Oh...that's mostly me being funny but, they will often go into great detail about biasing tube voltage and capacitors and whatnot. VERY much above my head.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:37 am
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mortalengines wrote:
I still haven't really even messed with the sag settings for the Mustang. Somehow I get the impression that it's for the ultra anal amp tweaking crowd....I thought I was a member of that one for a while but, then I checked out the Modern Amplifier section of this forum. Whew! Those guys are a breed apart!


Sag is usually the first thing I tweak, adds for "feel" and touch response to me.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:58 am
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Stinger22 wrote:

Sag is usually the first thing I tweak, adds for "feel" and touch response to me.


Me too. I have to admit that I sometimes abuse the sag amount sometimes. I mainly use low to medium gain sounds so it actually helps that type of sound (to me) but it's likely not too good for high gain sounds as it would get too mushy.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:37 pm
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I'll have to remember to play with that setting a bit more...I've tweaked it once or twice but, it seems in reality you would have to take a tube amp to a tech and have him play with the voltage amount running thru tubes....is that a correct assumption? That's the part where I was talking about the ultra anal aspect of sag. I have owned several tube amps and never once did I take it to a tech to increase or reduce sag. It might have helped had I done so, I suppose but, I always found that there were many tricks that can be pulled off when presented with a certain amount of limitations.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:05 pm
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mortalengines wrote:
I'll have to remember to play with that setting a bit more...I've tweaked it once or twice but, it seems in reality you would have to take a tube amp to a tech and have him play with the voltage amount running thru tubes....is that a correct assumption? That's the part where I was talking about the ultra anal aspect of sag. I have owned several tube amps and never once did I take it to a tech to increase or reduce sag. It might have helped had I done so, I suppose but, I always found that there were many tricks that can be pulled off when presented with a certain amount of limitations.


Sag is inherent of most tube amps that have a tube rectifier because as you draw more power the voltage output of the rectifier (due to it's internal resistance) causes voltage to drop causing the sag in voltage to the power output tubes plates. This is one reason many like solid state for bass amps because you get more punch as there is little to no sag. It is one factor (but not the only) that makes tube amplifiers over-driven sound so special. Another is the fact tubes are not very fast acting as compared to solid state so when driven beyond it's maximum it rounds and smooths the waveform as opposed to solid state that is fast and you get a sharp cutoff (like a squarewave) which sounds harsh to the ears. Bias set how hard you turn the tube on. Too little and you get a "cold sterile" sound and too much you overheat the tube causing early failure. Many bass amps will use a preamp tube in the preamp section for that good ole tube warmness but the output is fully solid state to deliver the pounding or punch needed.

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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:32 pm
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Yeah, I will say again it does the Fender tones pretty nicely. And I'm with you, mortalengines, on it being a great practice amp to carry upstairs while the half-stack sits in the basement music room (well, really a quarter stack, since my cab is a 2x12!! :lol: )

As for the sag, at first I didn't do much with it, but then I realized reducing the sag on the high gain models really made a big improvement IMO...made the sound feel more immediate to me. With the stock sag settings, the high gain models feel like the amp is sitting at the far end of a long tunnel...I dunno, that's the best way I can describe it. Reducing the sag made it feel more like the amp is a few feet away from me.

All the tube amps I've ever owned had solid state rectifiers, which don't really sag, so maybe that's why I like the lower sag settings??

But the effect on the lower gain models is more subtle to me...and I do like it on the Deluxe Reverb model!

And the bias settings, very subtle...I can hardly hear much difference.


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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:20 pm
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Muleya wrote:
Yeah, I will say again it does the Fender tones pretty nicely. And I'm with you, mortalengines, on it being a great practice amp to carry upstairs while the half-stack sits in the basement music room (well, really a quarter stack, since my cab is a 2x12!! :lol: )

As for the sag, at first I didn't do much with it, but then I realized reducing the sag on the high gain models really made a big improvement IMO...made the sound feel more immediate to me. With the stock sag settings, the high gain models feel like the amp is sitting at the far end of a long tunnel...I dunno, that's the best way I can describe it. Reducing the sag made it feel more like the amp is a few feet away from me.

All the tube amps I've ever owned had solid state rectifiers, which don't really sag, so maybe that's why I like the lower sag settings??

But the effect on the lower gain models is more subtle to me...and I do like it on the Deluxe Reverb model!

And the bias settings, very subtle...I can hardly hear much difference.


Well since I mostly play bass using a fully Solid State GK amp I agree. That is why bass players like solid state for the final amp output because there is no sag therefore increased punch.

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Post subject: Re: Are you unsatisfied with your Mustang?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:43 am
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I'm finding my Mustang III's fizzing to be getting a little worse. It's definitely more noticeable (and annoying in nature) than my Cube60 now.

I guess I'll be looking to trade it on Craigslist for someone's MII.

For now... unsatisfied.

Edited to add: I have the 4-button footswitch also, and I'll miss that a lot. Maybe I'll just sell the thing and move on.


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