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Post subject: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:51 am
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Regarding the "Official Fender Announcement Regarding Mustang III, IV, V." IMHO:
The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Every "clean" tone is no longer a clean tone anymore, no matter what setting or playing technique is used.


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:38 am
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I think the fizz problem will vary as between each individual amp & the firmware version. I had a Mustang III with v1.5 firmware, & I couldn't detect any fizz.

It's exactly the same type of issue raised by some folk as on the Vox VT+ which has certain 'quirks' on some amps but not others. Some folk felt these were noisy, others heard a 'snare-drum' type after effect after playing notes with certain amp models/settings. On the loan VT40+ I had, it was very, very quiet - but I did hear the snare-drum issue.

At this price point I think manufacturers such as Fender, Vox & Peavey are all in the same boat. They are trying to offer the best all-round package they can to ever more demanding customers who nowadays want & expect a lot more from their amps - and at a low price-point with low margins. I think manufacturers are making these amps as best as they can within very tight budgetry constraints and I know that each manufacturer agonises over every decision as to what to put in or take out, what materials & components to use, & manufacturing techniques.

Each manufacturer has the skills & knowhow to make amps to the highest standards with top quality components - but if they did that, they'd coast 4-5 times as much (or more!) and we just wouldn't buy them. So they all try to make these as best as they can within that very tight budget & every little decision is a judgement of solomon tussle. As an example of price differences that come with upgrades, the new Vox Valvetronix VTX150 'Neodymium' Pro is hitting the stores very soon - it's an upgrade to the VT+ range designed for more serious players which is reflected in the price - circa £599 street price UK - yes it's a SERIOUS amp aimed at a different sector of the market with 150w (300w with extn cab), has an expensive Neodymium 1x12" speaker, professional outs, 44 amp models, tons of FX etc etc - but its still about 3 x the cost of a Mustang III & more than a Mustang V and 4x12 cab with a 4-button pedal! Which just shows you how competitive the Mustangs are!

All of these modeling amps (Mustang, Valvetronix, Vypyr) are aimed at the mass lower cost market because they need to sell in bulk to be profitable. All these amps offer terrific bang for buck, each with their own characters, features, ...& foibles - Life isn't perfect but that's the way it is I'm afraid. All I know is that when I was starting out I'd have killed for any of these new amps!! :D

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:51 am
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It's simply unreasonalbe to expect people to live with an amp with the kind of "fizz" that has been posted on this forum. Have you actually listened to the sound clips people posted? It's not subtle. Do you think they're lying when they say it's always there? An amp that sounds like that is broken. It doesn't matter what it cost. It's not a good value if it's broken.


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:27 am
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In no way do I dispute that some folk are having problems - i simply said that this isn't affecting every amp & each customers experience (& expectations and 'sensitivity' to these issues) will be different.

Customers have the opportunity to vote with their feet & return their amps to the deakler for an exchange or refund if they're not happy with them.

But regardless of how much I sympathise with folks frustration, Fender knows about the problems (as do other manufacturers) and (whether we like the answer or not) they have responded.

All I said is 'such is life'.

Now, you say the amps are 'broken' - if so, they can be repaired or replaced under warranty (& Fender give a generous warranty eg 2 yrs UK, 5 yrs USA). If they're NOT broken, the question is then whether there is a DESIGN fault. If anyone can prove this independently & is willing to take on a manufacturer, that's quite another matter.

Otherwise customers can choose to keep the amp & accept its foibles, or return it - if the sound is that bad, I can't see that would be a problem (albeit I accept its an inconvenience.

If I'd have bought ANY goods that I was unhappy with, you can bet your bottom dollar I'd get it sorted with the store, the manufacturer, or (if need be) I'd issue small claims court proceedings in the UK.

The one thing that isn't going to help you or anyone here is to keep moaning about the problem on forum, pleading that you're hard done by and that your amp is broken, but not actually doing something positive - if you don't like this response, then I'm sorry.
I really don't mean to be harsh & I'm genuinely very sympathetic - but this is the world we live in & those are the facts of life.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:34 am
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I have the mustang I & V and do not have the fizz problem and i hope i never get it but i still can understand everyones anger about the fizz problem because i have the peavey vypyr 30 and it has some low end hum on the high gain amp models and it is not too bad but other vypyrs i tried out had much worse hum and noise problems,i also have the lockup problem once in while when switching fast through my banks and presets with my sanpera II footswith,the peavey firmware updates did not solve the lockup problem,there are a lot of complaints on the peavey forum about the lockup problem. my vypyr also has resonance and vibration problems from the amp chassis,grill cloth and cabinet,i solved these problems with weather stripping and felt.i hope peavey,fender,vox and the other company's making these amp modeling amp's do the right thing and take care of there customers when they have these problems with there amp's because once the word gets out about these company's doing nothing about solving these issues there reputations will be greatly damaged and the customer loyalty they once had will go elsewhere.digitech is coming out with the fusion amp modeling series of amps and i'am not sure if these are out yet? but it will be interesting to see if these amp's also have some kind of problems?


Last edited by Metalman50 on Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:38 am
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Quote:
The one thing that isn't going to help you or anyone here is to keep moaning about the problem on forum, pleading that you're hard done by and that your amp is broken, but not actually doing something positive


Complaining in a public way and protesting the bad behaviour of the Fender company IS doing something positive. Pretending that an amp that has an obvious design problem doesn't is what doesn't help anything.


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:02 am
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johnjaypl wrote:
Quote:
The one thing that isn't going to help you or anyone here is to keep moaning about the problem on forum, pleading that you're hard done by and that your amp is broken, but not actually doing something positive


Complaining in a public way and protesting the bad behaviour of the Fender company IS doing something positive. Pretending that an amp that has an obvious design problem doesn't is what doesn't help anything.


I think it's important that Fender understand what a public relations boondoggle their official response is. They should have said "no one knows how to fix it," or "we're working on it," or "it's covered under warranty and the newer amps don't have it." But to throw us a load of vague, self-serving mumbo jumbo drafted by a roomful of overpaid lawyers is simply a slap in the face to once-loyal and once-exuberant customers.


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:32 am
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Exactly. It's insulting to and dismissive of their intelligent customers who had come to rely on Fender's quality and good customer relations.

The ghost of Leo is turning in his grave. Hell, he might even climb out a kick some major A!


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:39 am
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As I said my Mustang IV does, fortunately, not have the fizz problem (and I hope it stays this way, only time will tell from what I've heard I guess.. But as long as I don't have the problem I don't plan on updating my firmware as, who knows, it might have something to do with it), however the Fender authorised dealer where I bought this amp in Slovenia doesn't have the "return if you're not satisfied" period to get refund, as far as I know, therefore if fizz does occur in my amp and if it isn't covered in the warranty (which is only 2 years in my country) it won't get replaced which means I'm screwed.
So yes, c'est la vi, but if Fender does not fix the fizz problem or offers refunds or replacements or somehow makes up for their mistake to those whose amp is broken - they're gonna lose a lot of customers, me included if I get the fizz and the "up-yours"-attitude by Fender.

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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:55 am
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I hear what everyone's saying, I assure you. The reality is that Manufacturers (especially in the USA) are terrified of admitting that there's a problem because they're terrified of product recall issues and the costs involved.

I don't know what else to say to you. If you think that complaining on forum will help, then go for it. Personally I think you're better off all writing to the Fender CEO to make your case. If he starts receiving a few hundred letters on this then he might just intervene & get something done.

You could also contact stores, and get their take on whether they've had problems with the number of complaints and how many have been returned. If you can try & get some evidence of the scale of the problem then that's going to be a huge help.

You could also get a petition together on the net, copy the CEO, and get it to the musical press and maybe local papers - because no big manufacturer wants a bad press. It's up to you guys to decide exactly what you're going to do if you want to stand up & be counted and there's strength in numbers....so work together.

But if ultimately none of you can be bothered to put the effort in to get something done, or you do but the response is minimal, then that's entirely up to you. If you want Fender to listen & force them to take action, then you've got to take action - or it just ain't going to happen.

One other thought - try & get a geographical feel as to where problems are being reported. The USA for example is renowned for having a very variable quality of electricity around the country. Why is this relevant? DSP amps are very susceptible to problems from 'dirty electricity'. Furman line conditioners are mainly sold in the US because of this, and there are special power cables (costing about $200) that do a tremendous job in improving amp performance.

You should all at least consider the possibility that your electricity quality might be connected with the fizz problems you're hearing. Perhaps someone could do some experiments with using the Mustang through a quality conditioner and/or pro-power cable to see if the fizz is still there? Here's an example power cord:

http://www.essentialsound.com/musiccord ... /index.htm

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:26 pm
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I know what you mean and I completely agree with you, and I understand Fender's point of view - however bad news travel fast, really fast, even without press. I believe they do read these forums therefore I am even writing about this (true that if it were my problem too - I'd write to them directly) and I do believe with their attitude they're gonna lose a lot of loyal customers.
Ultimately what costs more, losing the money from a few thousand amps by replacing them (or who knows it might be just a matter of software update which would be nowhere near as expensive as replacing the broken amps) or losing customers which would, over the years, bring them 10x as much profit by staying loyal to their company? That's what it's all about, and I do believe that keeping the customers (and keeping the customers happy) is a lot more important and better for their budget in the long run.

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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:33 pm
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Quote:
But to throw us a load of vague, self-serving mumbo jumbo drafted by a roomful of overpaid lawyers is simply a slap in the face to once-loyal and once-exuberant customers.


I wouldn't give all the "credit" to the lawyers, although they deserve their share. I smell the hand of some MBA's in this too. Not to mention the less than stellar work of the engineers who let the flakey products out of their lab.


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:44 pm
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If you want to personally complain to the Fender heirachy, try your chance here
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/15742/
a long shot, but if you live in Sth Cal and are quite peeved off with the response written by Fender lawyers, here's your chance.I'd do it but I live in Italy (no 30-day money back guarantee, 2 yr warranty only on the amp).And to all those who don't have the Fizz problem don't try to stop us complaining,we've got every right to do so! If your amp don't Fizz, p...-off and go and improve your playing!


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:24 pm
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Quote:
).And to all those who don't have the Fizz problem don't try to stop us complaining,we've got every right to do so! If your amp don't Fizz, p...-off and go and improve your playing!


And keep your amp turned down a bit, I'm worried about the hearing of some of you folks.


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Post subject: Re: The Fizz is not a small sonic variable.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:29 pm
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The good news is, this "let them eat cake" decree is backfiring on Fender bigtime. Universal outrage across the Mustang community on forums all over.

The People have spoken.


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