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Post subject: Re: PLease help me. Connecting boss me-70 with Fender Mustan
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:37 am
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Because some of the posts here show that there is some confusion and a lack of understanding (eg feeling 'conned') on mixing MFX with modeling amps, I hope this helps - & it is the same advice that I give everyone on all forums re modeling gear.

The first thing to understand is that a modeling amp is not like a 'conventional' amp. With a typical 2-channel amp, you have a clean channel & a distortion channel. The amp has its own unique tonal character. Depending on the make, model & type of amp (all-valve Class A, Class A/B or solidstate) it will react to external effects differently whether individual stomp boxes or a multi-FX unit. The input stage, power-stage and basic design can be quite different from one amp to another. Distortion/overdrive pedals that sound terrific with for example the clean channel of a Vox may sound lack-lustre through a Fender or vice-a-versa. A lot is down to trial and error.

It also depends where you position the effect. As a general rule, effects such as distortion and overdrive will sound best 'in front' of the amp, ie guitar>pedal>amp input. Time based effects such as chorus and delay will usually perform better in the FX loop. Here again, there will be differences as between a serial FX loop or a parallel FX loop - if the latter, and unless there is a true 100% mix, a pedal may sound better through a serial FX loop. Again, much depends on circuit design.

Modern modeling amps are very different because these do not have their 'own' sound. The whole 'raison detre' (reason for being) of a modeling amp is that thse are specifically designed to ONLY model OTHER amps digitally. This is why there is no 'bypass' option built in - it doesn't have its own tone to bypass too! It creates tone not directly through valves/transistors but by utilising very complex digital signal processing algorithms - the more complex the algorithm, the more accurate the modeling, but the more processing power is then needed to process the algorithm at sufficient speed to sound and react as near to the original amp as possible.

Most modeling amps are a compromise in that they are designed to model a single channel of a famous amp - for example, when someone says 'Marshall' for most players this immediately means that famous crunch/distortion that they're famous for. So, a modeling amp won't usually model the CLEAN channel of a Marshall, only one of the GAIN channels. So if you wanted a clean Marshall channel with delay & chorus in your Mustang or Valvetronix, you can't have it. Similarly, if you wanted to use an Ibanez tube-screamer in the clean channel of a real 2/3-channel Marshall you could - but you can't in a typical modeling amp because it doesn't model the clean channel. And if you were to run a real Marshall with a modeling FX unit, you'd only normally do so through the clean rather than the gain channel - or your Vox or Budha modeling will still sound like Marshall gain!

Now MFX units - there are TWO distinct types. Type 1 is a pure MFX that gives a wide choice of effects but NO MODELING (eg Boss ME20). Type 2 offers both FX AND modeling (eg Vox Tonelab). Now, here's the rub - if you mix a modeling amp with a type 2 modeling FX unit you will often get noise and a muddy tone because the amp modeling in each is conflicting with the other. It's a little like cranking your Marshall's gain channel & adding a Boss Metal distortion - it becomes a noisy mess.

So, my advice is that you should NOT mix a modeling MFX and a modeling amp. They're designed to work as independent solutions to the need for tonal versatility, NOT to work together. If you love your modeling MFX unit then you do NOT want a modeling amp - you need a 'straight' amp. I have a Vox Tonelab ST that I use only with my straight amps - I'd never use this with my Valvetronix AD120VTX (at least not with amp/cab modeling 'ON') Ditto stomp pedals - I'll use the inbuilt pedals in my VTX because these are specifically designed and positioned in the signal chain to work best with the modeling. Now and again an external stomp pedal might be useful eg a wah or compressor because eg you can only set one of these in a Valvetronix AD120VTX, whereas the external pedal can be kicked in independently & globally to enhance any patch. With a Mustang, you can select a distortion or compressor, but not both - so, you might want an external tubescreamer or compressor if you like this combination.

If you have an MFX modeling pedal and a modeling amp, I recommend you use the amp modeling, but TURN OFF the amp/cab options in your pedal, & just use this for additional FX. (you CANBNOT do this the other way round, because you can't turn off the modeling in a modeling amp - no 'own' tone, remember?). If you want to use the modeling & FX in your MFX pedal and have a modeling amp - then you simply have the wrong amp & need a straight amp as mentioned before.

You can try & compromise eg select as clean & 'neutral' sounding model as possible - and you can experiment with the FX loop if you have one. But just like the real amp, it may or may not mix well with your MFX modeling pedal. But as I said, although yu may find a good tone if you're patient, fundamentally these units are just not designed to work together.

You can effectively 'bypass' the modeling (but also pretty much everything else) in your amp by plugging your MFX into the FX return thereby using the amp purely as a power amp. But if you're going to do this, you're using your amp as a 'Straight' amp and completely wasting & missing the point of a modeling amp.

So, if you have a modeling amp but want to have a wider choice of effects, a 'straight' non-modeling MFX such as a Boss ME20 will work best because there's no 'competing' amp models - you're merely adding FX (either direct or through the FX loop).

Hope this helps.

Rich :wink:

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