It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:18 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:56 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 31
Up Front, I don't hear the "fizz" in my Mustang 3.
I do use really good cables - a pseudo-balanced heavy duty guitar cable (no signal down the shield), and a shielded power cable. From my high-end audio days I have always used fully shielded cables. Electric guitars pick up enough sonic garbage on their own.

I also believe that, in certain circumstances, there is a definitive artifact that is heard in the higher powered Mustang Amps. It is caused by the basic inability of a digital sound chain to have the complete range of amplitude from very low to very high - apparently the "fizz" is most apparent when low amplitude sounds are played with a higher overall set volume. It is like a sonic loss of detail - Kodachrome vs digtial.

Digital artifacts have been around since the beginnings of digital audio - read magazines such as Stereophile from the 1980's. Much of it was overcome with very high current outputs and multiple oversampling chips. It may be another generation before it is overcome in guitar amps completely.

As for Fender not addressing this - ask anyone who bought a Mac G5 during the "great capacitor scandal" about how a company could cover up a known problem. Fender might well have a fix but cannot implement the change in production immediately. Look at the problem Intel has had with the i3 chip set.

Why do we accept hum, noise, etc. in a tube amp while nothing is acceptable in an amp that is pushing the boundaries. Although I haven't seen the inside of one of these amps, I would not be surprised if Fender has used a digital signal chain from the input to the output -Using T class output amps. That being said, using high-end high powered digital systems mean that signal shielding and routing is very important. What makes for easy construction might not be the best for noise.

Considering the vast amount of setups just the users of this forum have, is it any wonder there is no real definitive way to consistently reproduce the sonic artifact.
We should stop pointing fingers, calling each other names, and setup a testing regime that can finally produce at any request the problem.

If you like the Mustang series, believe Fender will be able and willing to resolve the issue, then that great. To be honest I am in this "camp." The Mustang is head and shoulders above any of the other modeling amps and is worth accepting it's limitations. We need the forum to hopefully drive development and problem resolution - but we should stop being obsesses with a problem we cannot resolve through ineffective discussion and behavior.

If you can't accept anything less than perfection, by all means return the amps, exchange for other vendors, and begin to complain about their shortcomings. Much of the initial discussion over the last several months was quite constructive and informative but it has since degenerated into name calling, personal attacks, and a lack of helpful information - lost in the frustration of a problem that wasn't resolved quickly and a perceived lack of interest on Fender's part.

But even if the Fender reps had entered into the discussions would anything they said, less than full capitulation and acceptance of all complaints at face value, been accepted.

Can we now move on to more productive discussions? Maybe for those who need to continue this discussion can have their own forum group to do just that and let the rest of us have this forum back


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:43 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:52 pm
Posts: 10
yo man. I think that everything was cool with those gys that were trying to figure it out until cjmac or whatever his name and those other dudes stating raggin on them. it wasn't until they started hating that there were more than one or two threads. i have the fizz thing in my amp too, and i am no pro, just a regular player, but sounds like these guys are pros. fender should say something tho, even that they are workin on it and stuff. no reason why then can't for these guys and even though i am no pro for me too. everything just got too messy.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:48 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am
Posts: 184
@ saransk

Re digital artifacts ...

Not disagreeing ... you might be right ... but unless you represent Fender ... you're speculating just like everyone else.

Mustang owners have the right to be told what the cause of the fizz is directly by Fender ... and Mustang owners have the right for their amp to sound as clean as the sound clips Fender has used on their site to represent the sound of the amp ... differences in guitars, microphones etc. not withstanding.

KenB


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:57 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:52 pm
Posts: 10
KenB5 wrote:
@ saransk
Mustang owners have the right to be told what the cause of the fizz is directly by Fender ... and Mustang owners have the right for their amp to sound as clean as the sound clips Fender has used on their site to represent the sound of the amp ... differences in guitars, microphones etc. not withstanding.

KenB

exactly man. EXACTLY. when i heard their sound clips and videos i WAS SOLD. but very dissapointed when i heard what i heard. i mean the amp is great but come on man. we need to know about this stuff. i might just be lazy but i don't want to send stuff in the mail because some bg company got somethign messed up. just like that other guy that started all this going, i just want to know if i should deal with it or if they can fix it. like in zombieland, nut up or shut up fender. haha i guess you shut up instead up nuttin up. might was well be line 6 ahahaahaahha


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:59 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 621
Hate to reiterate the boring truth, but there really isn't any "speculation" going on here.

Fender has admitted there is a problem to a number of individual complainants

They are working on it

Until they find an answer no moderator/product people from Fender can discuss the issue here

That's it. Nothing more to see here. Move on.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:41 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 4:28 pm
Posts: 90
Musicmaster2 wrote:
Hate to reiterate the boring truth, but there really isn't any "speculation" going on here.

Fender has admitted there is a problem to a number of individual complainants

They are working on it

Until they find an answer no moderator/product people from Fender can discuss the issue here

That's it. Nothing more to see here. Move on.

Basically that's what the trolls are saying too...
So why should we not speculate about the problem as long as it's based on the facts and not wild guessing.
Just like the fact that the MI and MII do not have it and the fact you can't hear it using headphones/using a different power amp tells me it can't be a digital artifact at all.
Another thing is that it's at a set volume and won't get louder, now if it had anything to do with modelling that would not be the case, would it?
It's also interesting to look closely at the differences between the MI/MII and the MII/MIV/MV.

You might call this speculating but it's also logical deduction and just might lead to a better understanding of the problem and help solving it.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: End the hateful and usless discussion
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:12 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am
Posts: 184
@ Musicmaster2

Perhaps I was unclear. When I referred to speculation ... I was referring to speculation by owners as to the cause of the fizz problem ... not it's existence ... it definitely exists.

Other than a post several weeks ago by Loren regarding the Obnoxious Tail End Distortion problem ... I have seen no other posts by Fender regarding fizz ... not an acknowledgment of it's existence ... nor any comment regarding the cause based on their own findings or based on possible causes discussed by various users in this forum ... such as power conditioning, digital aliasing, LCD screens, shielding, speaker ageing etc ... although there have been a couple of posts by owners who stated they have contacted Fender and Fender has told them they're aware of the fizz problem.

I do not consider speculation as to the cause of the fizz problem a problem ... it's a natural artifact of people with a problem who are looking for a solution in the absence of input by Fender ... just human nature really. I am not saying any of the causes postulated by users are right or wrong ... I'm only saying it is speculation given that the only true authority as to the cause of the fizz problem is Fender.

KenB


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: