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Post subject: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:09 am
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Aspiring Musician
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For the past five months I have been visiting this forum almost daily, and it has been a great source of info and mutual support for Mustang amp owners.

Sadly not at the moment.

We now have at least three threads running on the 'fizz' issue, and dominating the forum, all them getting increasingly personal and as a result, being of no real value in contributing to the resolution of what for some is clearly a valid and serious issue.

Meantime, general posts on other issues are slowing noticeably as people no doubt drop in, note the aimless abuse and head elsewhere.

For heavens sake Fender :

1. As soon as you are able, make some statement about the fizz issue that would at least give people some context for their current speculation about the possible cause and you likely response.

2. Make some effort to moderate the forum. In its present state, its value to both existing and prospective Mustang owners is severely compromised.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:41 am
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Location: Hint,in a place...
I don't think thats the reason,Its most likely because it's summer now. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:37 am
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I agree, someone should stop the troll acting of Twangster210 and clejmac.
They completely ruin this forum.

It has come to a point people don't post their questions anymore because no matter what the question is these guys will tell you to call Fender 10 times in a row.
If people are afraid to post it's a real killer for this forum and consequently for the integrity of Fender.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:22 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 238
Quote:
1. As soon as you are able, ....


There's nothing stopping Fender from posting a response to the very REASONABLE questions people have about the product problems they are experiencing. Fender is making a choice not to respond. It's a sad choice that says a lot about Fender. The words "it's a business decision" does not make doing the wrong thing ok. Sad, very sad.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:26 am
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Frankly, Fender is killing their own forum and their own Mustang III-IV-V line.

FENDER chose to play the "silence" game, that strategy attracts vultures...it's not like Fender is the first company doing that...it's been seen before.

Corporates think it minimizes losses and damage to image when there is a major screw up...in fact, my Mustang III is currently in warranty repairs at the shop and it better be coming back in pristine shape and dead silent (as much as a cranked 100w can be silent...there is always noise at that wattage)...if not..then I can say this is my last Fender purchase and the Mustang III is gonna hit ebay. I'll take my looses and apply the money I'll get back that way to the purchase of an amp by a company that does not play "corporate" games: Carvin and the amp is gonna be a V3M, much more expensive but at least I'll have an amp in my living room and not at the repair shop with no comments from the company!

It's not as much as the Mustang III being defective or having to go through warranty repairs that tick me off, it is Fender's attitude. If need be, I will protest the best way I can, with my wallet and future purchases if this does not get fixed properly.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:27 am
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I agree re the trolling. However, it has to be said that this has only come about because Fender (albeit unintentionally I'm sure) precipitated the situation by not formally responding. But, and as has already been commented, this may be because Fender is in a 'difficult' position, with moderators possibly 'blocked' by Head Office from responding (which can be very frustrating for them too!). Fender is not alone here as similar issues and difficulties have also arisen from time to time on the Vox forum.

There can be a real catch-22 situation where customers understandably expect a formal response/solution (which may not always be available), but the manufacturer does not (or cannot respond, eg for legal reasons) which gives rise to the type of postings being referred to.

I realise that I'm probably somewhat 'naive' from a certain viewpoint, but I do firmly believe that manufacturers would gain more respect and greater customer confidence if they were more open about these types of issue even if it's just to acknowledge the issue and to keep customers up to date with regards their work to try and resolve the problem. If it is software related, it's reasonable to expect problems to be fixed at the next firmware upgrade (a big advantage as compared with other products that don't have upgrade facilities).

If it's hardware, then to at least identify the problem and reassure customers that the 'upgrade' will be in all new amps from a particular date.

But here is where companies like Fender and Vox have a problem because once they admit to a problem they could arguably be accused of bringing to market a product with a 'design/component glitch', and especially for US companies they are (understandably) worried about opening the floodgates to complaints and potentially product recall issues.

Another consideration, at least based on my own experience with the MIII and from posts here, is that either not every amp seems to have the fizz issue or that some customers are simply more 'sensitive' to it than others. This can make it difficult for manufacturers to effectively pin any problem down and identify if its affecting all or only some amps, and why. If you look on the Vox forum you'll find some very similar posts on the newer Valvetronix amps.

The other theme is one of 'proportionality'. The reality is that complaints on forum tend not to be truly representative of the scale of any potential issue when compared to market sales. Manufacturers will tell you that they sell tens of thousands of units to satisfied customers, and that conncerns on 'fizz' reflected on forum and from dealer feedback may well be very, very minimal by comparison. So it would simply not be cost effective to take 'extreme' company action to 'remedy' the situation across the board because otherwise even satisfied customers will jump on the bandwagon demanding a replacement/repaired amp.

I don't profess to be wise enough to offer any 'solution' here but based on my experience and dialogue with manufacturers, I thought this post may be of some help in clarifying the 'dilema' that companies have with regards to managing this type of theme as best as they can for the good of their business as a whole. And sometimes the corporate decision to 'effectively manage' certain issues might be an intentional 'corporate silence' which they appreciate might be misconstrued as 'uncaring/deaf ears'. It doesn't solve problems for those frustrated with 'fizz' I know, but perhaps empathizing with the position of Fender may at least help to put the issue into a wider perspective.

Sorry, didn't mean to bore anyone with such a long post!

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:11 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 238
Quote:
It doesn't solve problems for those frustrated with 'fizz' I know, but perhaps empathizing with the position of Fender may at least help to put the issue into a wider perspective.



Hmmm. Shall I empathize with a large coporation trying to maximze profits while refusing to respond to obviously valid complaints from guitar players that bought their product in good faith, and reasonably tried to get a response from the company on the companies own forum, or should I empathize with the the guitar players trying to get a response about their product problem. I feel wise enough to make that choice and it's an easy one.

Come on Fender, do the right thing and tell the good folks what you know or don't know about the problem.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:37 am
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:53 am
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Henky wrote:
I agree, someone should stop the troll acting of Twangster210 and clejmac.
They completely ruin this forum.

It has come to a point people don't post their questions anymore because no matter what the question is these guys will tell you to call Fender 10 times in a row.
If people are afraid to post it's a real killer for this forum and consequently for the integrity of Fender.


I have never once said to call Fender. I said return and replace the amp of have it repaired under warranty.

The economic laws that apply to the Mustang III also apply to a toaster, a coconut, or even a widget. I used a toaster in my post.

baerashbrewer stated that he doesn't make his living making toast and all I said was I was confident he doesn't make his living playing a Mustang III. He also stated he plays 150 rocks gigs a year. Does anyone here know anyone that plays 150 rock gigs a year?

Listening to his sound clip it is very easy to hear that his amp is defective. He is not going to fix that and neither is anybody else on this forum. Are there any other users that have the same defect? I haven't heard of any other user who has the same problem.

I believe what would and should have been considered acceptable background noise on sub $300 amp has now been lumped into the same category as his defective amp.

bborzell doesn't even own the amp yet has stated that he'd like to see the fizz thread hit 50+ pages? Does that statement not strike anyone here as odd? It should! He wants a 50+ page thread on what is a single defective amp.

Bottom line is if your amp sounds like the sound clip baerashbrewer posted, your amp is defective. You should return it or have it repaired under warranty. If your amp has a small amount of background hiss or noise your amp is not defective and you should dive in and enjoy it.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:46 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:10 pm
Posts: 406
Rockcat said a lot about this issue and his statement was very good,he briefly mentioned about the newer vox amp problems and i would also like to mention about the peavey vypyr,the vypyr's have there share of problems also and i would say are much worse then the fizz problem with some of the mustang's,i have the vypyr 15 and 30w and when i first bought my vypyr 30 at G.C. i had to go through 3 amp's before i got a good one,the other ones had loud hum and noise problems and the one i bought was a floor model that still had a little hum but it was only on the high gain amp models and something i could live with also these amps have lockup problems(this is a major complaint with a lot of the vypyr's),i still have an occasional lock up but it only happens when i use my sanpera II floorboard with it,(if i press the preset and bank up or down footswitches too fast this will cause the amp to lock up),a reboot will solve the problem,the vypyrs also have resonance and vibration problems,i had to add foam weather stripping to both of my vypyrs and put felt under the speaker grill on my vypyr 15 to stop the vibration problems i had with these amps.i also have the mustang I and V and have no problems so far,maybe i'am just lucky?i do hope fender resolves this fizz problem with the mustangs sooner rather then later because i really like my mustangs and would not like to see them put out of production if fender cannot resolve this problem.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:21 am
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First I mentionnend I would like to see the thread hit 50+ pages, so can you can stop digging your hole.

Second, I have a 99$ amp that is dead silent: Mustang I
I also have a 300$ including cab tube amp that is excellent and sounds wonderfull: Blackheart Killer Ant. So stop talking about acceptable noise since the amp is "cheap", 300$ for most people not living in the basement of their parents that is starting to count as serious money...just in case your wondering, 300$ is about a gig and a half worth of work in a bar. But I don't expect you to know that because you sound more like a frustrated teenager than a gigging musician.

I decided to move up to Mustang III, based on my experience with the I, since moving around a Mashall Full stack in small venues is not exactly something practical IF the owner even let's you bring that monster on his stage.

150 gigs a year "might" be a stretch since that involves a gig about every two days, but I can tell you that YES some people make a living with their "budget" amp, maybe not a main living but I consider gigging my second job. I can live with a certain amount of noise from any amp, hell my Marshall does have a little tube fizz and needs it's contacts and tube sockets cleaned and I can live with it until I service it and even if it does not completely go away, just bad wiring in a venue with make the monster buzz a little or if I crank it to 11 I expose myself to tube rattle, this monster is not young anymore but sounds like a dream...I just hope it does not start shorting like other JMC800 of his age. So no I am being anal about that fizz issue, I live with amp noise and imperfections and what not on a daily basis.

Third, the fizz is not "quiet" for many Mustang III amps I am certain, mine was more like buzzing and is just a tad quieter than the actual note...I.E. It's unusable and I can't return it since I've had it for 3 months and it started "behaving" only about a month ago.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:25 am
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:53 am
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vassago66 wrote:
First I mentionnend I would like to see the thread hit 50+ pages, so can you can stop digging your hole.

Second, I have a 99$ amp that is dead silent: Mustang I
I also have a 300$ including cab tube amp that is excellent and sounds wonderfull: Blackheart Killer Ant. So stop talking about acceptable noise since the amp is "cheap", 300$ for most people not living in the basement of their parents that is starting to count as serious money...just in case your wondering, 300$ is about a gig and a half worth of work in a bar. But I don't expect you to know that because you sound more like a frustrated teenager than a gigging musician.

I decided to move up to Mustang III, based on my experience with the I, since moving around a Mashall Full stack in small venues is not exactly something practical IF the owner even let's you bring that monster on his stage.

150 gigs a year "might" be a stretch since that involves a gig about every two days, but I can tell you that YES some people make a living with their "budget" amp, maybe not a main living but I consider gigging my second job. I can live with a certain amount of noise from any amp, hell my Marshall does have a little tube fizz and needs it's contacts and tube sockets cleaned and I can live with it until I service it and even if it does not completely go away, just bad wiring in a venue with make the monster buzz a little or if I crank it to 11 I expose myself to tube rattle, this monster is not young anymore but sounds like a dream...I just hope it does not start shorting like other JMC800 of his age. So no I am being anal about that fizz issue, I live with amp noise and imperfections and what not on a daily basis.

Third, the fizz is not "quiet" for many Mustang III amps I am certain, mine was more like buzzing and is just a tad quieter than the actual note...I.E. It's unusable and I can't return it since I've had it for 3 months and it started "behaving" only about a month ago.




Everyone please take note of this response. vassago66 has taken responsibilty for every comment I attributed to baerashbrewer and used the word I to defend those comments. vassago66 and baerashbrewer can only the same person.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:52 am
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The bird is yellow
The sun is yellow
Therefore, the sun is a bird
...and a confused one, or high, or drunk, or all the above...

end of comments...I have a tapping part to learn for my next gig. and I suck at tapping so I'll put my time to better use than further responding to you, it's pointless.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:55 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:18 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:42 am
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clejmac wrote:
baerashbrewer stated that he doesn't make his living making toast and all I said was I was confident he doesn't make his living playing a Mustang III. He also stated he plays 150 rocks gigs a year. Does anyone here know anyone that plays 150 rock gigs a year?


If I must explain myself. Yeah, they're called musicians. I live in a summer tourist town. During the summer months ( 3 months is 12 weeks x 5 gigs a week = 60 gigs). During the other 9 months we play between 2 and 3 times a week (2.5 gigs x 36 weeks = 90 gigs). On top of that, 35 private students a week and some weddings, some original studio sessions, around 20 jazz shows a year, rehearsals, and fill-in gigs.

Lugging around all the gear was getting tiring. However, the potential of the Mustang Amp has really made me happy. The amp is still great. I use it, although it is quite useless for quiet gigs and practicing because of the fizz (the two main reasons I bought it). I think we just want to hear Fender answer a simple question and their acting pretty sad. "Fender, if I return the amp, will I get one that sounds the same?" Answer: We can't say. "Fender, will this be fixed?" Answer: We can't say. Ask any other question. Their answer: We can't say.

Now clemjac. Stop getting so personal. Lay off the doritos and mountain dew, get off the computer, and quit hanging around forums that have nothing to do with you. Oh wait, no, make another stupid comment rationalizing your behavior. Blah blah blah.


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Post subject: Re: Clean this up
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:24 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Sorry you got the loud fizzy. I got the soft one. Unacceptable either way.

Loren just jumped in this am and addressed a 4-button issue. No mod management was done. No fizz was addressed.

This IS an official FENDER site where customers are encouraged to come and have interplay with Fender employees on a managed and moderated forum to solve product problems and have questions answered, is it not? Coulda fooled me...


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