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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:20 pm
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cjburr wrote:

Given that they tell you this in the manual I really don't understand your comment about using a competitors modeling device??

Thank you for the info. I guess once I get home I'll try the different methods and see what works best for me.


Eh... chalk it up to my sometimes suspicious nature but to me, it's just odd that he didn't point you to the best possible way to hook up another modeler - via the FX Return.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:31 pm
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I agree it is a bit odd, perhaps the FX return way hadn't been explored yet when we spoke or he just didn't think that way was best.

Seems the Mustang amps are quite versatile though and there are many ways to use them, stand alone, using your own pedals with their amp models , using POD or Amplitube or GuitarRig to avail yourself to the great many models they provide, recording into your DAW of choice, practicing at night with the headphones, etc, etc. Being able to make use of all these things you have already spent your hard earned dollars on is a wonderful thing to me. So often you find companies building things that while nice, have so much proprietary stuff that they cause you to have to buy all new stuff to make the best use of it.

They really are the best bang for the buck on the market today, now if they just get rid of the noise problem some folks are getting, mostly on the III's it seems, they will have a true home run on their hands.

Many thanks to the OP for letting us know about this method and thank the rest of you for your advice. Happy 4th of July from Afghanistan :D


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:00 am
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cjburr wrote:
I agree it is a bit odd, perhaps the FX return way hadn't been explored yet when we spoke or he just didn't think that way was best.


Can't buy that either. People have been connecting modelers to amps' effects returns for ages. There are lots of threads on the subject at Boss and Line6 forums.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:04 pm
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cjburr... Not trying to start any kind of problems here so, respectfully... When I read your original post on this subject, it is actually you who suggests: "I wonder if you can set the amp to clean like a 65 Reverb with no effects and use Guitar Rig4 as the effects unit" and Loren replies: "I'm actually a fan of Guitar Rig and that is the best way to use GR or any other modelling software with your amp." (Note he's not denying there are other ways.) I'm not an expert but if I were interfacing to a unit with limited preamp power (like a software emulator), I would agree with you (and Loren) that it may be best to pick a clean preamp to run through. However, with a unit that has plenty preamp power, like a PodHD 400, the others are exactly right... The power amp on the Mustangs only provide tonal compensation for the speaker characteristics. (Sorry, I couldn't find the thread thread where someone from Fender explains this.) Otherwise, it is an uncolored power amp. Sorry if I'm missing something else. :)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:54 pm
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I don't really understand these parts of your post.

mecaraway wrote:
However, with a unit that has plenty preamp power, like a PodHD 400, the others are exactly right... :)

Preamps don't have "power" per se, they do have a typical signal strength, usually around -10db. Are you saying that you've measured the output of the MIII's effects send, compared it to the measured output of a Pod HD and found the Pod's to have more output?

Quote:
The power amp on the Mustangs only provide tonal compensation for the speaker characteristics. (Sorry, I couldn't find the thread thread where someone from Fender explains this.) Otherwise, it is an uncolored power amp. Sorry if I'm missing something else.


The first part of this statement contradicts the latter. If the power amp is uncolored, then by design, it cannot "provide tonal compensation for the speaker characteristics".

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:44 pm
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Well, played the gig last night to around 8000. 1st time gigging with this unit and I really must say the combination of the two was awesome. The Mustang gave me plenty of stage volume (almost too much) with the volume no higher than 4. The POD was great. I used the Park 75 model with the Classic Drive for a crunch. For fun I routed a TS9 into the POD for some extra sustain and a little more volume boost for leads. All in all, great night. I only had one flub where I hit the looper button by accident on the opening riff to Satisfaction. Got into the rhythm and lo and behold the opening riff began playing again clear as a bell. Needless to say my bandmates gave me a "WTF" look! I simply unplugged the box, plugged it back in and was back in the mix before the chorus. One of those times you think how do I shut off the looper, as I had not fiddled with it yet to know anything about it. So, I took the easiest approach. If you are interested I have included a clip of us doing Mainstreet. I play the leads and sport the black hat. Let me know what you think.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php ... 5877301108

Rob


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:19 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
I don't really understand these parts of your post.

mecaraway wrote:
However, with a unit that has plenty preamp power, like a PodHD 400, the others are exactly right... :)

Preamps don't have "power" per se, they do have a typical signal strength, usually around -10db. Are you saying that you've measured the output of the MIII's effects send, compared it to the measured output of a Pod HD and found the Pod's to have more output?

It's been a while, but I have measured the voltage output of both a POD and a couple of the different interface rigs. I found the latter to not have the signal level of the POD and they all (interface rigs - not POD) had a hard time driving the power amp section of another amp of mine - haven't tried a Mustang. Yes, I'm referring to signal level. Power isn't an incorrect term in the technical sense, just not the one we use as musicians. I'm an engineer so forgive me. :)

Quote:
The power amp on the Mustangs only provide tonal compensation for the speaker characteristics. (Sorry, I couldn't find the thread thread where someone from Fender explains this.) Otherwise, it is an uncolored power amp. Sorry if I'm missing something else.


The first part of this statement contradicts the latter. If the power amp is uncolored, then by design, it cannot "provide tonal compensation for the speaker characteristics".

I also could have been clearer here too as I was intending to say that other than (hence the use of the word "otherwise") some eq shaping to compensate for the non-linear guitar speaker, there is no other coloration/modeling/etc. done to the power amp section. However, upon finding the original post about speaker compensation, I noticed that Fender says that compensation is done in the digital domain, before the power amp. So the end result is that the power amp has NO tone coloration in it other than what would be inherent to the circuit's design. (No amplifier is perfectly linear.)

viewtopic.php?t=44126

BTW, I love the clip of your Dumble patch. When are you going to post that thing???!!!


O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:29 pm
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thank you for the input, I'm merely trying to learn what I can so when I get home I can get up and running in short order.

The idea of running with the amp model on clean and setting my GuitarRig up through the effects send and return was merely what I could infer from the manual I have here with me and something I read here somewhere.

From what I can gather from your post my GuitarRig may not put out a strong enough signal and needs to be run through the preamp of the Mustang in the manner I suggested and Loren agreed with. The only way to find out is to try it I suppose so it will wait till I return home.

Glad the OP's POD is running well for him on his gigs and thanks again for posting about this way of using the amp.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:52 am
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Please let us know what works best for you. I'm always curious to learn more.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:56 am
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cjburr wrote:
From what I can gather from your post my GuitarRig may not put out a strong enough signal and needs to be run through the preamp of the Mustang in the manner I suggested and Loren agreed with. The only way to find out is to try it I suppose so it will wait till I return home.


A high quality interface should have +4db (industry standard for professional devices) output capability and that should be enough to drive any power amp.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:23 am
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[quote="mecaraway"
BTW, I love the clip of your Dumble patch. When are you going to post that thing???!!![/color]
[/quote]

"Fumble" has been uploaded in Fuse. Enjoy! But dude, you gotta learn how to use the quotes properly.

O.


Last edited by Orcatraz on Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV with a PodHD 400
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:29 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
A high quality interface should have +4db (industry standard for professional devices) output capability and that should be enough to drive any power amp.

O.


excellent, I should have no problems then. I was able to use my Champ with it so using it with the Mustang should present no problems.

thank all of you for the help and info, I'm going to really enjoy this amp when I eventually get home to stay. I might even get a Mustang I or II and ship it over here when I get home for vacation.


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