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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:07 pm
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Personally, this whole thing has tainted my view of Fender modelling amps. I'd be afraid to buy another Fender modelling amp, tubes or not, based on their reaction to this particular problem...at least not until it had been on the shelves for a good long while in hopes that these kinds of issues would be outed.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:43 pm
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Muleya wrote:
Personally, this whole thing has tainted my view of Fender modelling amps. I'd be afraid to buy another Fender modelling amp, tubes or not, based on their reaction to this particular problem...at least not until it had been on the shelves for a good long while in hopes that these kinds of issues would be outed.


Frankly ... I'm leery of all Fender products because of the way they've handled this ... there is no shortage of other options.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:23 pm
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Yup! I do not trust Fender ads anymore!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:33 pm
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I have the dreaded fizz on my G-Dec 3 30. It's a really fun amp, but unplayable with the fizz.

Also, the backing tracks sound really, really good. So it's not an issue with the speaker. I chalk it up to the modeling.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:16 pm
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herz1512 wrote:
I have the dreaded fizz on my G-Dec 3 30. It's a really fun amp, but unplayable with the fizz.

Also, the backing tracks sound really, really good. So it's not an issue with the speaker. I chalk it up to the modeling.



Wow, this is the first I have heard of this 'fizz' issue happening on anything other than a Mustang III, IV, or V. However, plenty of folks have posted, here and elsewhere, that the 'fizz' problem is not present coming out of the headphone jack or the USB line out. Therefore, it can not be a modeling problem. Is this the same with your G-Dec? It sounds to me like a power amp issue, but who can tell for sure. I only wish that Fender would muster up the integrity it takes to be forthright on this issue and just fix it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:43 am
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It's the headphones as well - don't know about the USB. I'm gonna double check on both though. My understanding was that the G-Dec uses different modeling technology than the Mustang, so I haven't ruled out that that it's a modeling issue.

My original post back in July '11: G-Dec forum isn't as active as this one, but there was someone else experiencing the same issue.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=58620


Most recent posting from a few days ago is here - Loren is looking into the settings.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=67868


I've been waiting for a G-Dec firmware update but there hasn't been one in awhile. They seem to be phasing the amp out so I'm not expecting an udpate anytime soon.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:02 am
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Just got my Mustang III, despite the fizz craze. My amp was manufactured fairly recently, in 11/11. To be honest, the fizz is there, but it's only on dead clean settings and it's much much more subtle and subdued than the YouTube clip with the mega fizz. The fizz on the video sounds like a sitar, which is not even an "artifact" anymore, but a plain nuisance. In my case, the subtlety and the extreme infrequency of the fizz allows me to completely overlook the problem, and enjoy the great amp while I wait with my fingers crossed to see if it will one day be completely fixed. Believe me, if the fizz was so bad that it was extremely apparent, I would have sent it right back. For now, I can live with it. But it does lead me to subscribe to the "Fender will probably quietly try to fix this in future production models" theory.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am
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thejamspot wrote:
Just got my Mustang III, despite the fizz craze. My amp was manufactured fairly recently, in 11/11. To be honest, the fizz is there, but it's only on dead clean settings and it's much much more subtle and subdued than the YouTube clip with the mega fizz. The fizz on the video sounds like a sitar, which is not even an "artifact" anymore, but a plain nuisance. In my case, the subtlety and the extreme infrequency of the fizz allows me to completely overlook the problem, and enjoy the great amp while I wait with my fingers crossed to see if it will one day be completely fixed. Believe me, if the fizz was so bad that it was extremely apparent, I would have sent it right back. For now, I can live with it. But it does lead me to subscribe to the "Fender will probably quietly try to fix this in future production models" theory.


I think that as you start digging deeper into the amp and mixing/matching various amp models with different cabs and EQ settings, you'll find that some combinations produce worse fizz than others.

It's only a problem when you find that perfect sound you've been looking for, only to hear the fizz buzzing in the background.

If you're looking to simulate some bass notes on the lower strings of the guitar, the fizz can be an issue.

I don't think it's something that can be quietly fixed because it will take a major overhaul of the design, and re-vamping the production facilities. I think they will just come out with a new modeling amp altogether. That way they can avoid having to exchange fizzy Mustangs under warranty.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:12 pm
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Quote:
I think that as you start digging deeper into the amp and mixing/matching various amp models with different cabs and EQ settings, you'll find that some combinations produce worse fizz than others.

It's only a problem when you find that perfect sound you've been looking for, only to hear the fizz buzzing in the background.

If you're looking to simulate some bass notes on the lower strings of the guitar, the fizz can be an issue.

I don't think it's something that can be quietly fixed because it will take a major overhaul of the design, and re-vamping the production facilities. I think they will just come out with a new modeling amp altogether. That way they can avoid having to exchange fizzy Mustangs under warranty.


I can imagine it would be a problem if I was looking for a dead clean sound. To be honest, I can't complain about it too much for $300. Chances are, if you need a dead clean '65 Deluxe sound, you'll buy a Deluxe. These amps are designed for versatility, which is why it has a bevy of metal presets. I've done a few gigs with the Mustang II and loved it. I was drawn to the III for the extra headroom and extra tweakability. IMO, no one truly knows what the exact problem is, enough to say how hard it would be to fix. But I do agree with the idea that if it were a simple fix, there wouldn't be such an air of mystery with the Fender staff.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:55 pm
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thejamspot wrote:
Quote:
I think that as you start digging deeper into the amp and mixing/matching various amp models with different cabs and EQ settings, you'll find that some combinations produce worse fizz than others.

It's only a problem when you find that perfect sound you've been looking for, only to hear the fizz buzzing in the background.

If you're looking to simulate some bass notes on the lower strings of the guitar, the fizz can be an issue.

I don't think it's something that can be quietly fixed because it will take a major overhaul of the design, and re-vamping the production facilities. I think they will just come out with a new modeling amp altogether. That way they can avoid having to exchange fizzy Mustangs under warranty.


I can imagine it would be a problem if I was looking for a dead clean sound. To be honest, I can't complain about it too much for $300. Chances are, if you need a dead clean '65 Deluxe sound, you'll buy a Deluxe. These amps are designed for versatility, which is why it has a bevy of metal presets. I've done a few gigs with the Mustang II and loved it. I was drawn to the III for the extra headroom and extra tweakability. IMO, no one truly knows what the exact problem is, enough to say how hard it would be to fix. But I do agree with the idea that if it were a simple fix, there wouldn't be such an air of mystery with the Fender staff.


We know for sure that the fizz is before the power amp. When I plug a Zoom g9.2tt into the effects loop, there's no fizz.

Also, the 2.5.0.18 update shouldn't have effected the fizz (it wasn't mentioned as a fix), but somehow it did "fix" most of the fizz problem. After the update: The Advanced Amp button was moved to the left. The patch changes seemed to be a hint faster. The gain dial seemed to have less effect on the sound. The volume seemed lower due to a decrease in gain. There was less bass and more mids and highs.

A hum debugger has calmed the fizz as well.

I've already got another brand amp picked out to replace the V head. I'm ah gonna hang onto this thing until at least the end of the warranty period plus the extra year my online seller provides hoping there'll eventually be a fix or a replacement of equal features and value that performs as described in their promotional materials.

...


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:42 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
[Also, the 2.5.0.18 update shouldn't have effected the fizz (it wasn't mentioned as a fix), but somehow it did "fix" most of the fizz problem.


Fuse is not firmware, and has no effect on the fizz. It's just a program for your computer that allows you to adjust the amp's settings. The firmware has not changed since last September.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:33 am
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cormorant wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
[Also, the 2.5.0.18 update shouldn't have effected the fizz (it wasn't mentioned as a fix), but somehow it did "fix" most of the fizz problem.


Fuse is not firmware, and has no effect on the fizz. It's just a program for your computer that allows you to adjust the amp's settings. The firmware has not changed since last September.


I know Fuse is not firmware, I've been around computers a long, long time. But, the update fixed most of the fizz, and it seems that the cost was low end and some gain. Or, a meer-ah-kull occurred. I re-installed the earlier version to get the mouse control back and the fizz is still gone.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:58 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
cormorant wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
[Also, the 2.5.0.18 update shouldn't have effected the fizz (it wasn't mentioned as a fix), but somehow it did "fix" most of the fizz problem.


Fuse is not firmware, and has no effect on the fizz. It's just a program for your computer that allows you to adjust the amp's settings. The firmware has not changed since last September.


I know Fuse is not firmware, I've been around computers a long, long time. But, the update fixed most of the fizz, and it seems that the cost was low end and some gain. Or, a meer-ah-kull occurred. I re-installed the earlier version to get the mouse control back and the fizz is still gone.


Curious, does the Fizz only occur for you when your amp is plugged into the computer running Fuse? I rarely connect my Mustang III to the computer and these days only use Fuse to update the firmware on the amp. I generally make adjustments to my presets right on the amp. I am one of the ones with a Mustang III that definitely does NOT Fizz. Just curious if you have ever checked if your amp fizzes when it is NOT connected to the computer and Fuse.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:37 pm
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bobio wrote:
Curious, does the Fizz only occur for you when your amp is plugged into the computer running Fuse? I rarely connect my Mustang III to the computer and these days only use Fuse to update the firmware on the amp. I generally make adjustments to my presets right on the amp. I am one of the ones with a Mustang III that definitely does NOT Fizz. Just curious if you have ever checked if your amp fizzes when it is NOT connected to the computer and Fuse.


I use the v head for practice and recording via a TASCAM US-144 MK II, Asus 6-core PC, powered Alesis monitors, and Sony headphones without a cab! I don't monitor the head from the Mustang USB, it's monitored via the 1/8" out so I can run a Zoom into the power amp and get both the Mustang DSP and the Zoom DSP simultaneously. So, the head is always hooked up to the computer one way or another. Tonight, I'll pull cables again to see which ones are noisy. The last time I did this, there was a different type of noise on each cable and a ground loop was identified and isolated to the v-head. If any noises crop up tonight, I'll hunt them down and post up! Last night, it was all playing, no noisiness, as it has been since the update and the hum de-bugger. The update, some how or another, and the hum de-bugger have simmered everything down dramatically -- the 2.5 update having a very noticeable effect first. Since the Advanced Amp button position changes with the 2.5 update and the fizz diminishes dramatically with a loss of lows and gain, the placement of the module may be the fizz culprit, the placement causing some sort of micro-chip ground loop, or one module amplifies the other modules noise in a bad way, fizz. Since the update was for the Champ tube amp, this would make sense. I'll betcha when they were testing the update for the champ, there was nasty fizz until they changed the sequence of the Advanced Amp module!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:57 pm
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I bought my Mustang III a few weeks ago.

It's fizz free so far.


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