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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:06 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
1. Fizz that interferes with clean tones and gain settings.
2. Slow, noisy, and sloppy patch changes.
3. A crippled USB that stopped my imagination dead it its tracks (noisy, can't switch sound applications on the fly).
4. A glitchy 4-button foot switch that cannot be gigged due to its unrelaibility.
5. Noise from the output panel and, or display.
6. The inability to insert effects into the effects loop, it's an effects insert post pre-amp, pre-amp, so it's an aux in, not an effects loop.
7. The inability to record output from the effects loop via USB.

I would have described the amp as follows:

We've lowered the standard of amp modeling with amp integration and put together a compilation of cheap parts and threw in some some major inconveniences that will frustrate you to the point of sadness. You'll enjoy the annoying fizz, sloppy and slow patch changes, and to add some real frustration to the mix, NOISE in the output and, or display section (we still not sure where it comes from yet.) Who wants to mount a Mustang??? NOT ME!

And I'm just trying to point out that I could take any other DSP Modeling product on the market, come up with a list of faults and known issues, and write a similar negative advert.

I just did a quick search of the Zoom g9.2tt. And while it does get rave reviews, I found a few dissatisfied customers as well. Comments taken from reviews on zzsounds.com :

1. Sound is pretty good but lack of cabinet modeling is a serious shortcoming.
2. there's a few weaknesses like midi only for updates and tweaking, usb only does recording interface. the wahs are a bit shallow, cant seem to get enough range.
3. I will say I agree with what one guy wrote, they were very misleading about the 10 effects at once deal.
4. This unit is definitely for a first-time buyer. I don't know why I bought it.
5. The selection knobs are really touchy and sometimes they won't hold the settings I dial in.
6. If you're looking for a unit that does a lot of stuff, yeah, it's worth the price I paid. If you're looking for a unit that does a lot of stuff good, buy something else. Some of the sounds that come out of this unit are painful.
7. In order to use the software included with your PC, you will need to spend another 50 - 70 dls in a MIDI - USB cable. It has a USB port wich can be use only to hear the mix the sound between your PC and the pedal. No Tweaking allowed if you don't have the MIDI_USB cable.
8. The "realistic distortion and overdrive" from the tubes--and maybe it's just my preference--sounded awful to me. Maybe for metal someone would appreciate it more, but in my style of music it sounded -worse- than a digitalized distortion. Nearly every patch sounds similar (there are probably five variations with few exceptions). This console is almost entirely a pre-amp and in my opinion, the sound for any of the amps were woefully unsatisfactory.
9. "Maximum simultaneous effects: 10" This statement is incredibly mis-leading. This is a -multi effects- pedal. But can you stack a tremelo, flanger, and chorus all on top of each other? No. Zoom is counting "Pre-amp" as an effect along with compression, wah--hell even the effects loop is counted as an effect. In the end you only get two FX channels, which wouldn't be a problem (The GT8 also only has two), except that unlike the GT8, basic effects like Chorus aren't on their own channel. In fact, on the first FX channel there isn't even a normal flanger (nor a chorus), so therefore you can't even have a chorus and a flanger going on at the same time! (Although there is an effect in the first FX channel called "X-Flanger" that I found useless. It sounds god-awful.) Most of the effects are redundant for use. Pitch shifters galore, but when it comes to actually wanting to shape my sound, the options here were very limited. Hell I prefer the effects on my practice amp more than this!

Hmmm, one could make a case that they are falsely advertising these things to use 10 effects at once.


Last edited by Scorpaeon on Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:08 am
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...I dialed in some nice tones tonight. Had to use Super noise reduction on the V Metal amp using a Hwy 1 w/ single coils, 3 on the noise gate on the Zoom. I had to back the gain way off on the V, so no "outrageous modern metal distortion" tonight from the V, but...I got it from the Zoom using the Diesel module. ...my imagination did run wild tonight, but on the Zoom. For a while, the Zoom sounded so good, I was thinking...wow...this thing smokes the V head. The V head doesn't color the sound of the zoom via the Aux in, it just power amps it, so to that end, the V does one job good, it serves as a good power amp for a good modler. ...I couldn't imagine, however, relying on the V effects and glitchy pedal. One patch refuses to power up as saved, it keeps kicking the compressor post-gain and the time based effects are faint unless I change them around. So...this thing sucks for everything else it's supposed to do, but it's a good power amp here, at home. I have no idea how the thing would hold up under road conditions and don't really want to find out.

I did download that one patch that turns off the amp to accomodate a mono line in from a signal processor, but I haven't tried it yet, I can only take so many disappointments.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:36 am
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Zanman777 wrote:
Obviously I still don't own any Fender Mustang amp. But from what I hear on the samples people post showing the so called "unbearable fizz", I feel the problem is way overemphasised.

I mean, I do hear some fizz on the samples people recorded, it's there alright. But come on... It's not that bad!... Before I tried to listen to some samples, the descriptions I read led me to think it was like a plague of grasshoppers was breaking out of the amp. When I actually checked out the samples, I couldn't believe people were making such a major fuss about that little hum...


@Zanman777

Hey ... if ya don't think fizz is that bad ... drop your money on a III, IV or V ... and report back in a few months to tell us how it worked out. But before ya do, do yourself a favor ... read the whole thread ... it's just not about fizz ... it's about warranty service and Fenders stance on the issue. The I and II seem to be fine though.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:02 am
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KenB, calm down, will you? I read as far as I could, 65 pages is too much to bear. This is the first time I'm chiming in, no need to shoot me from post 1.

Maybe the fizz becomes annoying after a while, I don't know... Maybe it becomes unbearable over time, due to psychological wearout factor. What I do know is it's not as pronounced initially as people are saying it is. That being said, I do understand the warranty service not covering THAT fizz, and Fender stance on it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:24 am
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KenB5 wrote:
Zanman777 wrote:
Obviously I still don't own any Fender Mustang amp. But from what I hear on the samples people post showing the so called "unbearable fizz", I feel the problem is way overemphasised.

I mean, I do hear some fizz on the samples people recorded, it's there alright. But come on... It's not that bad!... Before I tried to listen to some samples, the descriptions I read led me to think it was like a plague of grasshoppers was breaking out of the amp. When I actually checked out the samples, I couldn't believe people were making such a major fuss about that little hum...


@Zanman777

Hey ... if ya don't think fizz is that bad ... drop your money on a III, IV or V ... and report back in a few months to tell us how it worked out. But before ya do, do yourself a favor ... read the whole thread ... it's just not about fizz ... it's about warranty service and Fenders stance on the issue. The I and II seem to be fine though.

KenB



Has anybody called Ralph Nader?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:17 am
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Zanman777 wrote:
KenB, calm down, will you? I read as far as I could, 65 pages is too much to bear. This is the first time I'm chiming in, no need to shoot me from post 1.

Maybe the fizz becomes annoying after a while, I don't know... Maybe it becomes unbearable over time, due to psychological wearout factor. What I do know is it's not as pronounced initially as people are saying it is. That being said, I do understand the warranty service not covering THAT fizz, and Fender stance on it.


@Zanmann777

You're over reacting. If ya think you'll like it buy it ... and if ya think fizz (if it happens) won't bother you based on how you'll use the amp ... no reason not to jump in. Maybe you'll write back and tell us ya got a good one ... we're all looking for good news. It's up to you to read the full thread or not ... but it seems prudent considering how Fender is handling warranty service.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:23 am
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emcron wrote:
Has anybody called Ralph Nader?


:D +1!

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:52 pm
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Zanman777 wrote:
Guitarists are very well known for being completely obsessive over tone.

That's one thing, and not only with guitarists. Different people have different annoyance thresholds. It would also be particularly disappointing if the amp is otherwise a person's preferred choice.

Another thing is that it's obviously out of spec. The collected knowledge here suggests it's not a problem with the modeling, as it sounds fine over headphones or USB, so it's the analog power amp. It also doesn't appear to happen on all amps, and Fender weren't aware of it initially.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:37 pm
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I think the Ralph Nader pun was for you, Ken... "Areas of particular concern to Nader include consumer protection, humanitarianism (...)." I'm doing quite the opposite, so to speak. :P

The fizz sound seems forgivable to me. And that's what bugs me (either my speakers are really that crappy, or the samples I've heard don't show the real magnitude of the problem). But I seriously doubt about the accuracy of the 50/50 proportion of fizz/normal amps that the forum suggests. If you search "Fender mustang fizz", or even "Fender fizz" on youtube, only 1 video shows the fizz issue. If it was so widespread, why wouldn't more people post videos about it? It's expectable...

I'm not saying the problem isn't there. But I do believe it's been blown out of proportion, both in significance and in frequency (a lot of happy Fender Mustang III users won't even come to the Fender forum, whereas one can expect an unhappy owner to come at the fender forum for guidance/solutions/whatever). Many people may also think they have a fizzy Fender Mustang III when they don't: a PC monitor, for example, might make a fizzy sound due to its interference with the guitar pickups; the same thing about PC speakers. Maybe Mustang I and II don't "pick up" those interferences at home because of their lower power, while the III does. (That would explain why they sound normal on some shops). But hey, I'm just speculating here, I'm an electronics noob.

What is not forgivable, however, is Fender's silence about this. There I agree with you all. If a 65 pages topic of complaints doesn't do the trick, what does it take to push some words out of Fender's mouth? I seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that a company like Fender that exists since 1938, that leads the guitars AND amps market for a long, long time, can't find out the source (and even the solution) of the fizz. This leads me to think... are lobbies involved? Even if they consider the fizz of lesser relevance (like myself), it's crystal-clear it's important to the costumers - and that's what matters. It's not just a couple of costumers complaining - it's 65 pages of them (unless it was a small group of users making 65 pages... But that's unlikely).

I do agree with Fender's stance about this - it may be considered a forgivable fizz. But I don't agree with Fender ignoring the huge amount of complaints about it. And the fact that they apparently ignore emails with a fizz-related complaint... That's insulting. People are not expected, by no means whatsoever, to self-inform themselves of an issue that's very difficult to collect pieces of information about. A 65 pages thread?? Come on! Who's gonna read that?? I reached page 10 before I thought "Where the heck is that official Fender statement everyone's talking about?". I had to search for the moderators' posts, one by one, that had the "fizz" keyword. Eventually I found the official thread. I couldn't believe it wasn't even a sticky...

There's something seriously wrong going on with Fender... To be honest I am afraid of buying a Mustang III, indeed.

Has anyone tried to open up the amp and replace the analog power amp section, or something? Does it solve anything?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:06 pm
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They addressed the issue this morning on the " Is the Mustang Fizz Fixed Yet " Thread.

Loren Howard - Fender
Post subject: Re: Has the fizz been fixed yet?Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:00 am

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Hey All,

I'd definitely recommend the SCX2 to anyone that isn't satisfied with their Mustang. To me, it has the best of both worlds; tube preamp and output sections with great modeling technology in between. It is also compatible with Fender FUSE through a very soon to be released software update. It's surely worth checking out.

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480-596-7195

To me this basically tell you that there will be no fix and they have moved on from the Fizzy Mustang to support the new SCXD. So there ya have it! Ditch your Fizzy Mustang and grab the brand new SCXD!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:49 pm
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Zanman777 wrote:
But I seriously doubt about the accuracy of the 50/50 proportion of fizz/normal amps that the forum suggests.
You mean the poll thread? I don't know. Yes, I'd expect more people to start forum-posting when something's wrong, so that might skew it to one side, but it's difficult to draw conclusions. At the very least I think it shows the problem exists and it isn't that rare an occurrence.

Quote:
blown out of proportion, both in significance and in frequency
I wonder how many amps of the susceptible type are out there overall. The volume sellers are probably the 20-40W. If this page shows true sales figures, then a large European online store sold less than 1000 units. Maybe not bad for a specific amp model, but it's not a true high volume market.

Quote:
What is not forgivable, however, is Fender's silence about this.
You saw the statement.

Quote:
can't find out the source (and even the solution) of the fizz
I'm sure they have.

Quote:
It's not just a couple of costumers complaining - it's 65 pages of them
A large portion is a few core regulars, but it is peppered with "me too"s.

Quote:
I couldn't believe it wasn't even a sticky...
It was, for a short while.

Quote:
Has anyone tried to open up the amp and replace the analog power amp section, or something? Does it solve anything?
Although there are no schematics available, one Mustang-less user offered to have an engineer analyze the amp of any takers, but none so far in that area.

If you do end up getting an M3 it'd be interesting to hear your impressions.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:11 pm
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emcron wrote:
KenB5 wrote:
Zanman777 wrote:
Obviously I still don't own any Fender Mustang amp. But from what I hear on the samples people post showing the so called "unbearable fizz", I feel the problem is way overemphasised.

I mean, I do hear some fizz on the samples people recorded, it's there alright. But come on... It's not that bad!... Before I tried to listen to some samples, the descriptions I read led me to think it was like a plague of grasshoppers was breaking out of the amp. When I actually checked out the samples, I couldn't believe people were making such a major fuss about that little hum...


@Zanman777

Hey ... if ya don't think fizz is that bad ... drop your money on a III, IV or V ... and report back in a few months to tell us how it worked out. But before ya do, do yourself a favor ... read the whole thread ... it's just not about fizz ... it's about warranty service and Fenders stance on the issue. The I and II seem to be fine though.

KenB



Has anybody called Ralph Nader?


I think Nader is strictly acoustic.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:14 pm
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Strat-O-Cat wrote:
They addressed the issue this morning on the " Is the Mustang Fizz Fixed Yet " Thread.

Loren Howard - Fender
Post subject: Re: Has the fizz been fixed yet?Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:00 am

Fender Staff


Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 1816
Hey All,

I'd definitely recommend the SCX2 to anyone that isn't satisfied with their Mustang. To me, it has the best of both worlds; tube preamp and output sections with great modeling technology in between. It is also compatible with Fender FUSE through a very soon to be released software update. It's surely worth checking out.

_________________
Loren Howard
Technology Support Lab
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
TSL@Fender.com
480-596-7195

To me this basically tell you that there will be no fix and they have moved on from the Fizzy Mustang to support the new SCXD. So there ya have it! Ditch your Fizzy Mustang and grab the brand new SCXD!


Could Fender be making a veiled offer to swap out offending Mustangs for a SCXD (as someone here recently suggested might be a resolution for everyone)? Oh wait, I think that might have been moi.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:24 pm
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I guess this thread has run its course.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:58 am
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bborzell wrote:
I guess this thread has run its course.


Well, Fender contacted us privately and said that as soon as the newly re-designed fizz-free Mustangs come out, they'll swap our Fizzmasters for them.

Oh wait...that was just a dream. :oops:


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