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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:36 am
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The negotiation that I experienced with Fender ended up with an agreement on a swap of a $1,200 MSRP mandolin with a defective finish for a Princeton 65 reissue amp with a $1,200 MSRP. The end point didn't come with the first offer. It took two days and several calls back and forth with customer service.

It is possible that my transaction had a higher probability of success in the context of equal value because Fender had held my mandolin for nearly 6 months with no action at all. But, perhaps the most significant difference between my transaction and those experienced by some here related to Mustang amps is that there was no question of my assertion that the mando finish and therefore the mando was defective.

While I agree that Fender's offer to exchange for a Champ results in an amp that is unlike that which a Mustang buyer thought he/she was getting, I would view the swap as getting as close as possible to something of equal value in order to lessen the reality of being stuck with something that does not perform as expected, i.e., produces unwanted and unplanned for fizzy sounds.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:22 pm
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RCB-CA-USA,i had my 4 button footswitch display go blank a few times when using it with my mustang V,it does not happen a lot but when it did happen i had to reboot my mustang V again to get the display on the footswitch to work.

I also have the vypyr 30 with the sanpera II footswitch and every now and then when i switch through banks and presets on my sanpera II my vypyr locks up,this is annoying and a known problem with the vypyr's.

I just bought a vox VT20+ before christmas and it is very noisy when the power level is turned up to about a noon position and i think i also have the snare drum type noise that many complain about on the vox forums.

It just seems that you cannot win if you buy any of these modeling amps,so do not think just fender has problems with there mustangs that fizz. The only brand that may be problem free is line 6 but most of us know how digital these amps sound.

Another digital modeling amp i did not here much about is the digitech fusion,did anyone ever hear or play through one of these fusion amps?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:52 pm
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Metalman50 wrote:
Another digital modeling amp i did not here much about is the digitech fusion,did anyone ever hear or play through one of these fusion amps?
They were never released as far as I know.

But we're getting off-topic for the thread. :)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:57 pm
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mdintx wrote:
I just plugged in a strat type partscaster and didn't get any fizz. I grabbed another guitar, Ibanez semi-hollow, and got fizz.
Did you figure out why the difference?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:21 pm
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Metalman50 wrote:
RCB-CA-USA,i had my 4 button footswitch display go blank a few times when using it with my mustang V,it does not happen a lot but when it did happen i had to reboot my mustang V again to get the display on the footswitch to work.

I also have the vypyr 30 with the sanpera II footswitch and every now and then when i switch through banks and presets on my sanpera II my vypyr locks up,this is annoying and a known problem with the vypyr's.

I just bought a vox VT20+ before christmas and it is very noisy when the power level is turned up to about a noon position and i think i also have the snare drum type noise that many complain about on the vox forums.

It just seems that you cannot win if you buy any of these modeling amps,so do not think just fender has problems with there mustangs that fizz. The only brand that may be problem free is line 6 but most of us know how digital these amps sound.

Another digital modeling amp i did not here much about is the digitech fusion,did anyone ever hear or play through one of these fusion amps?


I'm not having problems with an older Zoom DSP. So, it sounds like the big guys have lowered the industry standards, which is contrary to the Mustang's advertised purpose!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:03 pm
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I was just mentioning the various brands of modeling amps out there with problems and not the floorboard modeling processors that some of these company's produce,you cannot really compare apples and oranges here because most of the modeling floorboard units do not have the type of problems that the amp only modeling processors have.

The power amp makes a huge difference in the amp versions of these modelers and that is where a lot of the problems like the mustang fizz most likely come from.

I have a good variety of floorboard guitar modeling processors and i have had no problems with them,just to name a few: Boss GT-3,Digitech GNX3,Deltalab DGFX1 and Korg AX1500G.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:22 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Metalman50 wrote:
RCB-CA-USA,i had my 4 button footswitch display go blank a few times when using it with my mustang V,it does not happen a lot but when it did happen i had to reboot my mustang V again to get the display on the footswitch to work.

I also have the vypyr 30 with the sanpera II footswitch and every now and then when i switch through banks and presets on my sanpera II my vypyr locks up,this is annoying and a known problem with the vypyr's.

I just bought a vox VT20+ before christmas and it is very noisy when the power level is turned up to about a noon position and i think i also have the snare drum type noise that many complain about on the vox forums.

It just seems that you cannot win if you buy any of these modeling amps,so do not think just fender has problems with there mustangs that fizz. The only brand that may be problem free is line 6 but most of us know how digital these amps sound.

Another digital modeling amp i did not here much about is the digitech fusion,did anyone ever hear or play through one of these fusion amps?


I'm not having problems with an older Zoom DSP. So, it sounds like the big guys have lowered the industry standards, which is contrary to the Mustang's advertised purpose!

It sounds to me like Metalman50 is making a point that Fender's standards for the Mustang are at least on par with the the rest of the industry.

My personal opinion: I'd rather have a Mustang with a barely audible fizz on a couple of settings than any of those other amps with their known isssues.

And I agree that floor units are a different animal.

And I agree that this is a digression from the original topic. So please, back to the fizz-fest. :P


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:22 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Metalman50 wrote:
RCB-CA-USA,i had my 4 button footswitch display go blank a few times when using it with my mustang V,it does not happen a lot but when it did happen i had to reboot my mustang V again to get the display on the footswitch to work.

I also have the vypyr 30 with the sanpera II footswitch and every now and then when i switch through banks and presets on my sanpera II my vypyr locks up,this is annoying and a known problem with the vypyr's.

I just bought a vox VT20+ before christmas and it is very noisy when the power level is turned up to about a noon position and i think i also have the snare drum type noise that many complain about on the vox forums.

It just seems that you cannot win if you buy any of these modeling amps,so do not think just fender has problems with there mustangs that fizz. The only brand that may be problem free is line 6 but most of us know how digital these amps sound.

Another digital modeling amp i did not here much about is the digitech fusion,did anyone ever hear or play through one of these fusion amps?


I'm not having problems with an older Zoom DSP. So, it sounds like the big guys have lowered the industry standards, which is contrary to the Mustang's advertised purpose!

It sounds to me like Metalman50 is making a point that Fender's standards for the Mustang are at least on par with the the rest of the industry.

My personal opinion: I'd rather have a Mustang with a barely audible fizz on a couple of settings than any of those other amps with their known isssues.

And I agree that floor units are a different animal.

And I agree that this is a digression from the original topic. So please, back to the fizz-fest. :P


If fizz is the new industry standard, then we are being cheated. My old Zoom plays perfectly -- fizz free, smooth patch changes, noiseless USB, non-crippled USB, works beautifully with effects pedals, and Zoom lives up to their warranties.

...you sound like you are trying to defend this new, lower standard.

...new longer lines, higher prices, and less customer satisfaction???


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:34 pm
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
If fizz is the new industry standard, then we are being cheated. My old Zoom plays perfectly -- fizz free, smooth patch changes, noiseless USB, non-crippled USB, works beautifully with effects pedals, and Zoom lives up to their warranties.

...you sound like you are trying to defend this new, lower standard.

...new longer lines, higher prices, and less customer satisfaction???

ahhhh, I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked back into this..... Ok, last time....

I can understand how you feel cheated as the amp did not live up to your expectations. I, on the other hand, have had nothing but positive experiences with my MIII from day one. And a quick check of any online retailer will show far more positive reviews than negative, so it's not like I'm just talking out of my rear end here. So yeah, I defend the amp. I love the amp. I'm not trying to defend any standard though. I just think you are way off base, if not just being facetious, if you really think Fender's standard is very much different from any other standard in the DSP amp modeling industry. They ALL try to live up to the same standard, and they ALL fall short in one area or another.

The zoom pedals are great products. I'd love to see them put their technology in an amp. If they could do that, and match the Mustang feature for feature and keep the price comparative AND have it work so flawlessly as you say your pedal works... then I would dump my Mustang in a minute.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:26 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
ahhhh, I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked back into this..... Ok, last time....

I can understand how you feel cheated as the amp did not live up to your expectations.


You are misunderstanding what we are saying. It's not expectations. The Mustang V is not living up to its advertised purpose -- huge difference. Here's what was advertised:

Introducing the All-New Mustang™ Amplifier Series

The new Fender® Mustang™ amplifier series raises the standard for modern guitar versatility and muscle. Driven by incredibly authentic amp models and a huge bank of built—in effects, Mustang amplifiers come equipped with USB connectivity and Fender® FUSE™ software, allowing your musical creativity and imagination to RUN WILD.

HIGH-SPEED
Mustang amplifiers contain highly accurate on—board amppresets with tones from vintage Fender sparkle to outrageous modern metal distortion. Plug in, and you're up and running.

Here's what I got:

1. Fizz that interferes with clean tones and gain settings.
2. Slow, noisy, and sloppy patch changes.
3. A crippled USB that stopped my imagination dead it its tracks (noisy, can't switch sound applications on the fly).
4. A glitchy 4-button foot switch that cannot be gigged due to its unrelaibility.
5. Noise from the output panel and, or display.
6. The inability to insert effects into the effects loop, it's an effects insert post pre-amp, pre-amp, so it's an aux in, not an effects loop.
7. The inability to record output from the effects loop via USB.

I would have described the amp as follows:

We've lowered the standard of amp modeling with amp integration and put together a compilation of cheap parts and threw in some some major inconveniences that will frustrate you to the point of sadness. You'll enjoy the annoying fizz, sloppy and slow patch changes, and to add some real frustration to the mix, NOISE in the output and, or display section (we still not sure where it comes from yet.) Who wants to mount a Mustang??? NOT ME!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:14 pm
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Here is an experiment, for those interested:
1. go to http://www.shure.com/americas/buyers-gu ... tening-lab
2. click on "Get Started" button.
3. on "Sort by series" menu, click on "SM" option.
4. select the "SM57" option.
5. on "Sound Samples", click on "Guitars | Electric Bass" item.
What you hear? Would be some kind of fizzy noise 'effect'?
All electric bass sound samples from this site have that noise and it is well pronounced.

Let me clear: I'm NOT trying to justify any defects in fender products, but I think the fizzy noise is not so unusual in any digital recordings (especially when it comes to low frequencies).

This is just my opinion: I think no modeling amp is perfect and never will. And I think all modeling amp have some degree of noise/artifact.

So, I'm decided not buying any fender mustang anymore (even the MII which has less issues). Not to mention that in my country, the price is about 3 times more expensive. I just think it's not worth. Maybe I'll buy a Boss FBM-1 or FDR-1 pedal and use them with an audio interface for some recordings.

This is my last post on this topic.
So, good luck to those who still seek a solution from fender (one day it will rise, but when and how good will be?).


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:25 pm
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waao wrote:
Here is an experiment, for those interested:
1. go to http://www.shure.com/americas/buyers-gu ... tening-lab
2. click on "Get Started" button.
3. on "Sort by series" menu, click on "SM" option.
4. select the "SM57" option.
5. on "Sound Samples", click on "Guitars | Electric Bass" item.

What you hear?


A Fender Mustang. ...certainly not an older Zoom G9.2tt.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:35 pm
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waao wrote:
Here is an experiment, for those interested:
1. go to http://www.shure.com/americas/buyers-gu ... tening-lab
2. click on "Get Started" button.
3. on "Sort by series" menu, click on "SM" option.
4. select the "SM57" option.
5. on "Sound Samples", click on "Guitars | Electric Bass" item.
What you hear? Would be some kind of fizzy noise 'effect'?
All electric bass sound samples from this site have that noise and it is well pronounced.

Let me clear: I'm NOT trying to justify any defects in fender products, but I think the fizzy noise is not so unusual in any digital recordings (especially when it comes to low frequencies).

This is just my opinion: I think no modeling amp is perfect and never will. And I think all modeling amp have some degree of noise/artifact.

So, I'm decided not buying any fender mustang anymore (even the MII which has less issues). Not to mention that in my country, the price is about 3 times more expensive. I just think it's not worth. Maybe I'll buy a Boss FBM-1 or FDR-1 pedal and use them with an audio interface for some recordings.

This is my last post on this topic.
So, good luck to those who still seek a solution from fender (one day it will rise, but when and how good will be?).


Won't play on my iPad2. The entire electronics industry is crawling back into the green goo we all evolved from. Devo were right.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:13 am
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waao wrote:
Here is an experiment, for those interested:
1. go to http://www.shure.com/americas/buyers-gu ... tening-lab
2. click on "Get Started" button.
3. on "Sort by series" menu, click on "SM" option.
4. select the "SM57" option.
5. on "Sound Samples", click on "Guitars | Electric Bass" item.
What you hear? Would be some kind of fizzy noise 'effect'?
All electric bass sound samples from this site have that noise and it is well pronounced.


The "Guitars l Electric Bass" example ... that isn't fizz.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:39 am
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I've been reading a couple of threads here at the forum, and registered only recently to ask a question about the EXP-1 pedal. I'm thinking of buying a Fender Mustang; whether it's the III or the II would depend on the significance of the problems the III has. Now I took a deep breath and tried to read this 64 pages thread to get to some conclusion about the fizz threat on a III. Got to page 10, what a record. :)

Obviously I still don't own any Fender Mustang amp. But from what I hear on the samples people post showing the so called "unbearable fizz", I feel the problem is way overemphasised. Either that or my speakers are really that crappy. I mean, I do hear some fizz on the samples people recorded, it's there alright. But come on... It's not that bad!... Before I tried to listen to some samples, the descriptions I read led me to think it was like a plague of grasshoppers was breaking out of the amp. When I actually checked out the samples, I couldn't believe people were making such a major fuss about that little hum...

I'm not affiliated to Fender. I do like Fender, but I'm not affiliated to them. I find the Mustang amps very, very worthwhile. The sound they offer is astounding, with no match on its price range (no other modeling amp with this price tag digs into the vintage/clean sounds like the Mustangs). Maybe they have flaws, I'm not saying otherwise. Obviously I can't comment on the USB annoyances, and the noisy patch changes. But when it comes to the "Fizz of Doom" everybody is fighting about... I just can understand Fender's official statement about that. Guitarists are very well known for being completely obsessive over tone. An example of that is the fundamentalism of a large portion of the tube lovers community. Another example of that is... well, this. If a tube amp was leaking this "fizz", everybody would fall in love with it. "Oh, it's the character of the amp, no modeling amp can replicate that!". I'm just being sarcastic here... But you get the point.


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