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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:45 pm
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Looks like there won't be any good related news from NAMM. No new Mustang amps, unless you count the Mustang Floor or the new Super Champ.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:42 am
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Interesting that there are still folks defending these amps when a call to Fender tech support is likely to result it a discussion with a decent tech guy who obviously feels bad about the unwanted sonic artifact. Prior to the "announcement" from Fender, pretty much all my discussions with tech support involved clear recognition on their part of an unplanned for noise that is not particularly musical.

If some people are OK with getting noise that was not designed into the amp, that's OK with me, but I don't buy amps that add noise to my playing.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:01 am
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In my personal point of view, I don't "defend" Fender.
If I had such FIZZ (the ones posted in the 2 audio clip), my M3 would have already been changed.

Maybe all Mustang FIZZ.

I just say that I don't hear any particular strange noise out of my MIII.
All my cleans are OK.

I say to the future Mustang owner coming here to read the fizz thread that they must take into consideration the fact that people with unsolved problem shout ten times louder that the others. (nothing against that, that is normal and I am the same).

It is only a matter of balance.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:39 am
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I don't believe that "balance" has anything to do with this matter. The reality is that some of these things fizz and some don't. Some have speculated that the most likely reason for this variability is low quality electronic components; some work and others don't. That translates to poor quality control.

Democracy has little to do with the fact that this is a real issue. This should not be a case where people take sides or vote and somehow try to balance out their particular point of view. No amount of trolling for votes for the "no fizz" crowd will negate the fact that there is a fairly high probability that anyone who has bought a III/IV/V Mustang has an amp that produces a sound artifact that was not a part of the original performance spec. Fender has confirmed as much.

If you or anyone else is OK with that taking the risk of getting an amp that either fizzes out of the box, develops the fizz later, or hopefully is lucky enough to have scored a fizz free amp, then go for it. But trying to justify your willingness to live with either the fizz or the risk of having it develop later on on the basis of "balance" seems to miss the entire point.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:49 pm
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bborzell wrote:
I don't believe that "balance" has anything to do with this matter. The reality is that some of these things fizz and some don't. Some have speculated that the most likely reason for this variability is low quality electronic components; some work and others don't. That translates to poor quality control.

Democracy has little to do with the fact that this is a real issue. This should not be a case where people take sides or vote and somehow try to balance out their particular point of view. No amount of trolling for votes for the "no fizz" crowd will negate the fact that there is a fairly high probability that anyone who has bought a III/IV/V Mustang has an amp that produces a sound artifact that was not a part of the original performance spec. Fender has confirmed as much.

If you or anyone else is OK with that taking the risk of getting an amp that either fizzes out of the box, develops the fizz later, or hopefully is lucky enough to have scored a fizz free amp, then go for it. But trying to justify your willingness to live with either the fizz or the risk of having it develop later on on the basis of "balance" seems to miss the entire point.


+1

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:35 pm
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mpr wrote:
Looks like there won't be any good related news from NAMM. No new Mustang amps, unless you count the Mustang Floor or the new Super Champ.


The new Fender Excelsior will supposedly sell for $299. It's a 13-watt 2 x 6v6 amp with a tremolo circuit, but alas--no reverb.

There is no perfect amp is there? The Mustang III came so close...


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:49 pm
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Yeah. So, how much would I have to pay for a Mustang III that doesn't fizz? This is just insane. $400? $500? Well, after biting on the bullet on a $100 loss with the out of period return for the MIII due to horrible fizz that bothered even casual listeners, I paid quite a bit more for an amp that actually plays clean. I've played twins and deluxe's. They don't fizz. There are a number of options for altering a clean tone. But you have to be able to start with a clean tone. If it can't play clean, it can't model the amps it claims to model.

cormorant wrote:
mpr wrote:
Looks like there won't be any good related news from NAMM. No new Mustang amps, unless you count the Mustang Floor or the new Super Champ.


The new Fender Excelsior will supposedly sell for $299. It's a 13-watt 2 x 6v6 amp with a tremolo circuit, but alas--no reverb.

There is no perfect amp is there? The Mustang III came so close...


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:20 pm
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brucefulton wrote:
Yeah. So, how much would I have to pay for a Mustang III that doesn't fizz? This is just insane. $400? $500?


It cost about $900.00 to get a Mustang V that don't fizz. In addition to the $299.00 you'll spend on the V head, you'll need a noise reduction pedal, high quality chords and patch cables, and another DSP unit cuz the DSP unit on the Mustang V can be verrrry fizzy, even with noise reduction and high quality cables and tying together the head with another effects module.

...if a Mustang III is $299.00, ...we'll, you'll still have to spend the same amount as I did to get the same extra equipment if you want fizz free sound, at least $900.00 total!

8)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:03 pm
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KenB5 wrote:
bborzell wrote:
I don't believe that "balance" has anything to do with this matter. The reality is that some of these things fizz and some don't. Some have speculated that the most likely reason for this variability is low quality electronic components; some work and others don't. That translates to poor quality control.

Democracy has little to do with the fact that this is a real issue. This should not be a case where people take sides or vote and somehow try to balance out their particular point of view. No amount of trolling for votes for the "no fizz" crowd will negate the fact that there is a fairly high probability that anyone who has bought a III/IV/V Mustang has an amp that produces a sound artifact that was not a part of the original performance spec. Fender has confirmed as much.

If you or anyone else is OK with that taking the risk of getting an amp that either fizzes out of the box, develops the fizz later, or hopefully is lucky enough to have scored a fizz free amp, then go for it. But trying to justify your willingness to live with either the fizz or the risk of having it develop later on on the basis of "balance" seems to miss the entire point.


+1

KenB

bborzell wrote:
Interesting that there are still folks defending these amps when a call to Fender tech support is likely to result it a discussion with a decent tech guy who obviously feels bad about the unwanted sonic artifact. Prior to the "announcement" from Fender, pretty much all my discussions with tech support involved clear recognition on their part of an unplanned for noise that is not particularly musical.

If some people are OK with getting noise that was not designed into the amp, that's OK with me, but I don't buy amps that add noise to my playing.

You refuse to accept any compromise on principle. I can respect that. In fact I agree with you in principle. I don't defend Fender's action/inaction so much as I defend the amp its self.

Here's why I feel compelled to defend the amp.

1. The Mustangs are great amps for many reasons. (As opposed to a bad amp for one reason.)

2. There are very, very, very few tangible examples of how the fizz has rendered the Mustang unusable.

Good luck to you guys trying to find a better all around amp for a better value. We'll see what comes out of NAMM.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:21 pm
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bborzell wrote:
…. The reality is that some of these things fizz and some don't….

I still don’t know about what fizz you are talking about. If it is the really bad one that was recorded in the audio clip, I would say OK with you.
But, IMO, most of reported FIZZ amp are not as bad as in the audio clip.
IMO, the majority of the Fizz amp that was reported are only a problem for the “discerning listeners” , which is also Fender’s opinion …
bborzell wrote:
…Democracy has little to do with the fact that this is a real issue...

You speak about democracy, ..I didn’t.
bborzell wrote:
… No amount of trolling for votes for the "no fizz" crowd will negate the fact that there is a fairly high probability that anyone who has bought a III/IV/V Mustang has an amp that produces a sound artefact that was not a part of the original performance spec. Fender has confirmed as much. ...

Go back in the thread and read again Fender announcement, I think you did not understand it very well.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:26 pm
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The fizz on my III & IV has not gotton any worse. It does not bother me on stage, at rehearsals or at home in my studio. Yes it is there, but unless you really go looking for it, you don't notice it and neither does the audience.

Everyone will always have an opinion one way or the other and listening to musos attack one another over this issue, is really awful. Musicians are generally a crowd who all have a common purpose and get along so well.

I would make this observation in summary.

Whenever there is a faulty product released to market that affects a good percentage of owners, usually what happens when the company fails to respond to the outcry, people start taking their complaint to the media, current affairs programs etc., who then go out of their way to investigate and expose sub-standard products and customer service. This nearly always results in the company involved finally taking account to resolve the problem because of the bad press and damage to their reputation.

So I say to all of you. If this fizz issue really affects you that badly, then take this course of action.

This will finally make Fender respond. But you simply can't keep whinging about it here. It won't solve anything and won't force them to do anything to fix it. Sure, they will no doubt release a new updated version of the product that fixes the problem and whether it's called a Mustang or not, remains to be seen. Probably not. They will most likely pitch as an entirely new product range, even though it's the same animal.

Will they then go back and recall and fix previous models. Not if you don't expose them to the media. Someone needs to start this process and get everyone else that's upset on-board. Probably through a different forum as once Fender get wind of it, they will shut this thread down really quick.

8beggars


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:27 pm
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willmodelisme wrote:
IMO, the majority of the Fizz amp that was reported are only a problem for the “discerning listeners” , which is also Fender’s opinion …


@willmodelisme

Sorry ... but IMO that's rubbish ...

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:02 pm
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KenB5 wrote:
willmodelisme wrote:
IMO, the majority of the Fizz amp that was reported are only a problem for the “discerning listeners” , which is also Fender’s opinion …


@willmodelisme

Sorry ... but IMO that's rubbish ...

KenB


The easiest way to resolve this then is: A warning label on the box and full disclosure on the web or print descriptions. "If you are a discerning listener, you will find the Mustang series of amplifiers to be inferior in quality. The amp fizzes."

...I wouldn't have purchased the amp if that disclosure were made. Can you say "false advertising"??? I can. The amp does not perform as described and the description compared to the amps performance is so glaringly disparate, one can only assume the defect was discovered at some point in time and instead of fixing the problem or making the disclosure, the decision was made to ignore the glaring disparities between the advertisements for the series and the amps performance. ...can you believe Fender did this??? ...I'm shocked. I thought Fender was above such fly-by-night tactics.

I've got 5-years left on my warranty via a reputable online seller's extended warranty. Hopefully, this one won't break them cuz the definitive warranty I've got is through the online seller. Will they pay to fix Fender's defect?

Anyways, I'm having great success using the V head for recording with an inexpensive Behringer NR (noise reduction) 300. It's $23.99 at American Musical, http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-NR300-LIST. But, you'll need good cables, and yes, I mean good cables. The only cables that work for me thus far are George Lynch .155 10 footer, and his .155 patch cable pack, the signal is very clean, very shielded. The cables are so clean, you'll hear your computer noise, noise you wouldn't hear with cheaper cables. If you want to record without noise from noisy wires and a fizzy DSP...and without having to turn sound cards and programs on and off and on and off to multi-task with your computer...you'll have to invest another $300.00 in a computer interface, more cables, and pedal board, or valuable space on your pedal board, at least a 7 x 20 swath for the noise reduction setup.

no, no excuses are acceptable.

The amp does not perform as described and is useless for its intended purpose, that's false advertising.

...have you noticed how nice and patient and friendly we've been about all this...giving Fender lots and lots and lots of time to figure out a solution?

Me? I'd do this: 1) Apologize. 2) Offer a repair, full-credit towards another product, or a refund. 3) ...make sure this don't happen again or suffer being considered another corporate giant using fly-by-night tactics to make a quick buck. Don't defile music that way again, please.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:03 pm
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Hey Ken B.

So your solution is ?????????????????????? what ????????????

Keep coming on this forum and complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and shooting down other peoples attempts to help find a solution. That'll really solve the problem.

You offer no sensible comments on what the masses that are affected with this problem should attempt to do, to bring Fender to the table to discuss and resolve this.

While I am not particularly affected badly, at least I am trying to offer some alternatives to help get this resolved.

Seems to me, that some individuals on this forum, just want to perpetuate useless debate that is going nowhere. How long has this thread been going and how many posts to it and with absolutely NO RESULT other than people levelling smart arse comments at one another rather than working together for the greater good and pursuing another course of action to bring Fender to bare.

8beggars


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:14 pm
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8beggars wrote:
Hey Ken B.

So your solution is ?????????????????????? what ????????????

Keep coming on this forum and complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and shooting down other peoples attempts to help find a solution.


I must say that I back KenB 100%. Fender has left us no option but to complain. There is no solution. We have no choice but to whing. This thread is for whingers only. Fender has seen fit to allow this thread to flourish because they take pity on us. They will not close it, and we will continue to commiserate with each other.

If you are not inclined to whing, please visit one of the many threads full of happy Mustang customers, and let us whing in peace.


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