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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:20 am
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emcron wrote:
Craigslist idea is interesting for a few reasons. Sell a amp on cl because it's defective? Hmmmm....

I've been scanning the ads in Chicago for months and I I've seen a couple of Mustang1's for sale. I've never seen a Mustang3. Not one! People are hanging on to them. Lots of pretty much everything else for sale though.


Could it be that the fizz issue isn't that bad after all? :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:30 am
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Here's the thing. These amps are just like any other amp or guitar or any other gear. People are going to find things they like about it and things they don't like about it. It's going to perform better in some situations and not so much in others. I feel bad for you guys who feel you can't use the amp at all because it doesn't suit one particular niche. Yeah, I get that its a little disappointing that you can't use if for clean jazz if that's what your into, but honestly if that's what you primarily bought the amp for you're completely missing the Mustang boat anyhow. Mustangs have so much more to offer than that.

Is it defective? Could be, I don't know. I still think its the single best piece of gear that I spent less than $300 on. And judging by the lack of used MIII's available, I'd guess I'm not alone.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:21 pm
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Quote:
Is it defective? Could be, I don't know. I still think its the single best piece of gear that I spent less than $300 on.
+1

Yeah, I agree it sucks for those who are hindered by what the amp doesn't do (or what it does do in this case-fizz) but despite the problem, and my MIII has it too, I've been able to work around it based on the style of music I play and by experimenting with amp settings. For some, the fizz is a deal breaker, but I'm so happy with the rest of what it can do I can ignore it.

The last thing I wanted to do was get re-involved with this discussion but I thought Scorpaeon had some good points.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:06 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
Is it defective?

Yep. Fender admits as much.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:03 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
Yeah, I get that its a little disappointing that you can't use if for clean jazz if that's what your into, but honestly if that's what you primarily bought the amp for you're completely missing the Mustang boat anyhow. Mustangs have so much more to offer than that.


@Scorpaeon

Hey ... don't blame the jazz guy ... or anyone else that plays clean. They (assumedly) bought the amp partially based on Fenders reputation for clean tones and based on the marketing of the Mustang that Fender uses ... after all ... their site gives lots and lots of examples of Mustang clean tones ... and they are good fizz free clips. Who woulda thought Fender would produce an amp that for many people produces lousy cleans ... and who woulda thought Fender would take a guys hard earned money and then stiff 'em by turning their back on 'em when they complained of a fizzy amp? To use your analogy ... when they bought their Mustang they thought they were in the "boat" ... but it's evident in this case that Fender built a lot of crummy boats.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:30 pm
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Scorpean wrote:
Yeah, I get that its a little disappointing that you can't use if for clean jazz if that's what your into, but honestly if that's what you primarily bought the amp for you're completely missing the Mustang boat anyhow. Mustangs have so much more to offer than that.

Check youtube. Take a guess at how many vids with obvious Fender tie-ins tout the clean tones for jazz and acoustic. Fender says it models, among others, the Twin, a classic clean-tone amp used by jazz and acoustic artists. Ever hear a twin that fizzes? Neither have I. But the Mustang III does. It's not me who's missing the boat here. I bought in on the strength of the claim that it modeled the twin and the numerous reviews and demos on Youtube and other sites demo-ing clean jazz tones. If it can't model the twin, it's false advertising. What really sucks is that the fizz may not appear until after a vendor's return period has lapsed and the buyer is stuck. You must be thinking of a different boat.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:40 pm
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emcron wrote:
Craigslist idea is interesting for a few reasons. Sell a amp on cl because it's defective? Hmmmm....

@emcron, not sure what you're getting at, but I traded the amp back to Guitar Center, where I was up-front about my issue with it. I don't have the time and energy to deal with CL right now, but I have bought and sold a fair amount of gear there. I would not, of course, have hidden the issue from a potential buyer, and I figured that would slow the selling process and lower the price I would get. By trading it to GC, I know that whoever buys the amp from Guitar Center will at least have the option to return it.

BTW, I am recording a lap steel part for someone now. We both really liked a tone I got via USB with '57 Deluxe model, set up very clean, that I'd sent him earlier, so I traded the MIII for an MII. I took a beating money wise, and I'm still pissed at Fender and didn't like giving them more money right then, but I like it as a recording tool (and find it a far better home amp for me than the MIII was).

Scorpaeon wrote:
I feel bad for you guys who feel you can't use the amp at all because it doesn't suit one particular niche.

@scorpaeon, suppose the amp came with a rip in the speaker cone that buzzed on some notes. I guess that would just make it unsuitable for my "particular niche" too, but would you see that as *my* problem? I've had a lot of amps that didn't suit some of my particular niches, but I think this situation was different.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:02 pm
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I had an M3, and really enjoyed the value, features, etc, but it also fizzed. I mostly play blues and jazz type stuff, so my tones are generally clean. In some circumstances the fizz was very obvious, and very annoying - in particular playing very clean settings for quiet practice while sitting close to the amp, or using the same clean settings at higher volumes while close micing the amp. In some circumstances, the fizz was still present, but not nearly as bad and not really a practical problem - for example, if you start adding dirt (and/or certain FX), or playing at higher volumes and standing a good distance from the amp. In other situations, the fizz was entirely absent - using the headphones jack, direct over USB, or using the FX out and amplifying or recording via other means.

Truthfully, if the M3 had been released on its own, without the M1 and M2 having come before it, and this problem didn't develop over time, I wouldn't see anything wrong with this. Chances are, most people will never notice, and like all products, it will work for some people and not others. You can't expect any product, regardless of the price, to ever be perfect and the M3 is clearly a value for money product. What bugs me is that I upgraded from the M2, which didn't have this problem. By upgrading, I was expecting to keep all the things I loved about the M2, but get more on board control, a better speaker, etc. I was not expecting the upgrade to add fizz. I was also not expecting a problem which wasn't disclosed in the product literature and which didn't develop until well after my 30 day return period was over to not be covered by a 5 year warranty.

When I contacted Fender about the fizz issue, the customer service reps were very polite, upfront, and tried to be as helpful as they could be. I asked if the problem could be repaired, or if exchanging for another M3 would help, and I was told by a few different reps that it would not help. I asked if the problem was going to be fixed in the future and if I'd be able to exchange at that time, and they didn't know. They did however indicate that the problem wasn't as simple as replacing a part, and that a fix would require some degree of re-design, and they of course couldn't comment on when and if that would happen. They offered to exchange my M3 for another Fender amp at a similar price. My first preference would have been that they fix my M3, and my second preference would have been getting my money back, but I didn't feel like keeping it and potentially getting stuck with it.

I have moved on, and it's been months since then, but I really did like most of what the M3 offered, so I'd been hoping Fender would have a fix, or even better, a pro version. I chose the M2 and upgraded to the M3 for what they offered, not for the low price. I'd have happily paid more for the same basic sounds and features in a better package - a better cabinet (real wood, improved construction, corner guards, etc), metal connectors, 1/4" headphone/line output, better USB jack, and whatever layout/component changes it took to get rid of the fizz.

I'm a bit disappointed to see that months later, the situation hasn't really improved. On a more positive note though, I did just notice a post over at TGP mentioning a new Super Champ, the Super Champ X2! It mostly looks the same as the original SCXD, but now has USB and Fuse access, so I imagine the models have been revamped with Fender's newer DSP technology. Also, there is an all new head version, which will be a really nice option for some people, since many complaints about the SCXD concerned the 10" speaker, cabinet rattle, etc.

Check them out!

10" Combo:

http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2223000000

Head:

http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2223100000

12" Cab:

http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2223200000

I'm definitely interested, but also gun-shy after my experience with the Mustangs (and some other newer Fender products). Fender is an iconic guitar company and I'd hate to dismiss them, but at some point, if you get burned enough - you stop touching the stove, right?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:14 am
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MusicalCircuitry wrote:
I'm definitely interested, but also gun-shy after my experience with the Mustangs (and some other newer Fender products). Fender is an iconic guitar company and I'd hate to dismiss them, but at some point, if you get burned enough - you stop touching the stove, right?


@MusicalCircuitry

EXACTLY!

IMO Fender has lost credibility with many Mustang owners as a result of this debacle, and not just with owners of fizzy amps, but others who have watched how Fender has handled this mess. Many people may feel they can't trust Fender on their next purchase. In regards to warranty service, standing behind their product and doing right by the customer ... they've set the president which makes it easier to do the same thing again for other products for other reasons. They've lowered their own bar as regards to design, manufacture, customer service and warranty service and they've burned their customers and they've burned their dealers. All they have to do now is say "Oops ... sorry mate ... you're too picky ... or the problem you want fixed is within spec ... so tough luck buddy ... but thanks for the money." Or the classic response ... "Problem? What problem? We haven't heard of any problem."

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:29 am
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KenB5 wrote:
...
IMO Fender has lost credibility with many Mustang owners as a result of this debacle, and not just with owners of fizzy amps, but others who have watched how Fender has handled this mess. ...
KenB


:lol: What are you calling à debacle ? The 20 guys in this "FIZZ forum" protesting against FENDER ?

You just forgot to mention the thousands of mustang users all over the world fully happy with their amp fizzing or non fizzing.
Maybe mine fizz also, I don't hear it.
Maybe I don't hear it because I don't sit next to my MIII playing only one string at specific setting.
Maybe I don't hear it because I just play normally.
Maybe I don't hear it because i am not focused on "fizz".

I am pretty sure that this is how the majority of mustang owners behaves.

This needed to be written here as a remember.

Come on guys, get your feet back on the earth, you spend to much time in this forum, you lost your sense of reality :lol:

You really make me laughing with this :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:51 am
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willmodelisme wrote:
KenB5 wrote:
...
IMO Fender has lost credibility with many Mustang owners as a result of this debacle, and not just with owners of fizzy amps, but others who have watched how Fender has handled this mess. ...
KenB


:lol: What are you calling à debacle ? The 20 guys in this "FIZZ forum" protesting against FENDER ?


I'm pretty sure Fender can withstand this.

There's fizzing on the GDec 3 30, as well, all over the place, in fact. I haven't seen anyone else address that (and yes, I understand this is a Mustang board. I'll be along shortly).

The saving grace with the GDec, however, is that it's a very different kind of amp. The point there is playing with, or over, backing tracks, and with the backing tracks, fizz is inaudible.

The MIII is a very different animal.

Fizzing or not -- and I really don't like it -- these amps offer a lot for not a lot of money. When I want true blackface clean, I play my Princeton.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:01 am
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@willmodelisme

Hey ... if there are thousands of satisfied Mustang owners ... which I don't really doubt ... good for them. And if you don't have fizz, don't notice it or don't care about it ... good for you too. But for some of the rest ... the experience has likely left a bad taste in their mouth ... and they might not be willing to be so forgiving of Fender when it's time for their next purchase ... especially if they feel like they've been ripped off ... and that can't be denied.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:26 am
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I agree with you KenB5. :wink:
And I understand that the fizz can be an issue for some people.

But you must admit that you are bit strong saying this is a debacle. :wink:

I was just trying to refocus the debate with humour.
I think we must avoid generalizing in this case.
It brings a little more credibility in my opinion.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:27 am
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MusicalCircuitry wrote:
I did just notice a post over at TGP mentioning a new Super Champ, the Super Champ X2! It mostly looks the same as the original SCXD, but now has USB and Fuse access, so I imagine the models have been revamped with Fender's newer DSP technology. Also, there is an all new head version, which will be a really nice option for some people, since many complaints about the SCXD concerned the 10" speaker, cabinet rattle, etc.


It looks like you can only select one effect at a time, and that includes reverb--i.e you can have reverb OR one of the other effects, but not both.

Anyone know if that's right?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:37 am
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It's really hard buying the "Evil Fender" bit when these amps deliver such a value.

I'm going to admit that I would probably be bummed if I paid $300 and I detected fizz. But I'm not positive - I always hear some weird stuff because of my single coils and I deal with it. Sometimes it's REALLY noticeable. The song, and life, goes on.


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