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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:30 pm
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Roadie
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OK guys - here's the latest response from Fender and my response:


Quote:
Hi Richard,

As mentioned before, we have released an official statement regarding this topic.

Only very few customers have raised the “fizz” as an issue and it’s a characteristic that is only produced in certain conditions on certain patches with particular settings.

If we could narrow this down to one component, we would. However, it is a result of particular factors coming together in a very particular way and is therefore very hard to quantify. This is why so few customers have come forward with it.

I can assure you that this issue has already been raised at the highest levels.

Thanks,
Matt.

Matt Davey | Service Manager
Fender Musical Instruments GBI


My response:

Quote:
Hi Matt

1. The official statement is at very best vague and unspecific.
2. How can you possibly say very few customers are suffering with this problem, with the amount of adverse feedback you've received?
3. What specfically are the certain conditions, particular patches and settings you are refering to? (Presumably you have these all properly documented as part of your research)
4. If it is not a specific component, what specifically are the 'particular factors coming together in a very particular way'. To make this statement, Fender must have undertaken the necessary research so presumably you can provide specific information on the amp's you've had returned and examined
5. This is only happening on Mustang 3/4/5's - NOT MI's or M11's. You designed these amps - so you must know what the design & component differences are!!

The whole 'raison detre' of the Mustang amps is the fender modeling of Fender amps - whilst there are some other models there too, the majority are Fender and (as specifically marketed by you and as demonstrated on the official Fender demo's on you-tube - e.g. by Damon of Fender UK) customers buy these amps specifically to model accurately the clean tones of Fender amps. It is therefore wholly unacceptable that ANY Mustang should have 'fizzing' that distorts/mars the Fender clean tones - which is exactly where the problem is.

I don't wish to sound cynical Matt, but I've heard all these vaguaries before from other manufacturers. If you are seriously expecting us to believe that a company with the size, resource and reputation of Fender, who employs some of the cleverest, most talented, technical and knowledgeable people in the industry haven't fully examined the problem. and know exactly what the cause is, then you're not treating us very intelligently. We know that you know - but you just don't want to say. Either that, or the Fender designers and technical staff are wholly incompetent - and we don't believe that for a moment!

There are only three possibilities that we can think of:
1. It's the modeling - which a firmware upgrade could fix. As you can't remedy this by a firmware update, this means its 2 or 3
2. Use of one or more specific components that are causing the fizzing
3. That the Mustang 3/4/5's have a design defect

Matt, we keep asking Fender to be open and come clean on this, but instead all we get are 'vaguaries' - which means you're obviously not prepared to.

I've asked you on several occasions to refer this to the office of your CEO. I'm formally asking again that our communications be sent to the main Fender Board with the request that the Board formally responds and opens a dialogue directly with me. Alternatively, please provide me with an E-mail address for the Fender CEO's office and I will happily contact them.

Kind regards

Richard

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:03 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 226
Quote:

If we could narrow this down to one component, we would. However, it is a result of particular factors coming together in a very particular way and is therefore very hard to quantify. This is why so few customers have come forward with it.



This is the part I don't follow. Is he saying that the fizz is the result of several factors and conditions, and as a result, few customers have complained?

What does one have to do with the other?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:07 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:48 pm
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Go Rockcat!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:41 am
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I went back 10 pages and it looks like the same 10 people are commenting on this thread. I think Fenders new response about "so few customers complaining" is honest. Thread length does not equal hundreds or thousands of complaints.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:58 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 262
Look on:

Amazon feedback
Strat.talk.com
UltimateGuitar.com
The jazzguitar forum
http://www.tdpri.com
rhinestore.us.tc
thegearpage.net
mylespaul.com
guitars.co.uk

To name just a few!

Interesting you-tube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H3gFU6e7o

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"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:42 pm
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Roadie
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Latest update:

Quote:
Matt, appreciate the offer but I don't have an MIII - I'm purely trying to help all those who are getting nowhere with Fender. As I've mentioned to you in earlier posts, and as posted on the forums and other sites, I had an MIII on approval from DV247 for 3 weeks. I liked the amp & had no problems - it simply didn't fit my needs as I needed an extn cab out which it didn't have.

But I've heard the problem on another MIII and its fairly nasty. Here's a you-tube vid of the fizz on an MIII & its pretty accurate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H3gFU6e7o

The M1 & MII are fine - the III, IV & V's have the problem. No Mustang should sound like this!

I completely understand that your hands are tied...which is exactly why I've asked for E-mail contact details to the CEO's office. Please provide this, so that a dialogue can be opened and some answers can be obtained directly from the Fender board.

I've asked for this some 3 or 4 times now Matt - this is a very polite and reasonable request and is not a lot to ask. Otherwise I'll have to write to the USA the old fashioned way which is an unnecessary inconvenience.

Very reasonable & precise questions have been asked of Fender, but no reasonable responses have been forthcoming. If Fender has nothing to hide, surely there's nothing that your Board has to fear in opening up a sensible dialogue.

Kind regards

Richard





Quote:
Hi Richard,

I’m very sorry that you’re not satisfied with the performance of your Mustang amplifier. Perhaps the best option would be for you to return it to the dealer where you purchased it. If you could let me know the serial number on your amp I’ll get in touch with the dealer and try and arrange this for you.

As we have discussed, Fender has released an official statement on this issue and I can offer no more information than that in the statement.

Thanks
Matt.

Matt Davey | Service Manager
Fender Musical Instruments GBI


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:52 pm
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Hobbyist
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 11:59 am
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Hobbyist, I haven't weighed in here for a long time. I am one of the "few" that had the fizz problem. Both of my III's were made in Nov. of 2010 and had the dreaded fizz. I have been viewing this Forum regularly to check on this issue. I had hoped to purchase a new fizz-free Mustang III in the spring of '12. It looks like this may not happen....for the obvious reason. I doubt that the fizz issue will be resolved by then. I really think that there are a lot more of us out here than just a "few" that had or have the fizz problem. I returned the units I had. But for the fizz, they were Great amps. Bob


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:26 pm
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If "so few" customers have complained, it wouldn't be that big a deal for fender to just refund purchase price for the complainers since the problem is easily documented. Clearly, the number of complaints has escalated to the point where that would be cost ineffective. The current fender position basically says, if your amp fizzes, tough. And by the way, they all fizz. I don't know raw numbers, but a google search on fender mustang fizz gets 25k hits. Fender isn't as big a company as most people might suspect, and they don't go that deep on engineering.

emcron wrote:
I went back 10 pages and it looks like the same 10 people are commenting on this thread. I think Fenders new response about "so few customers complaining" is honest. Thread length does not equal hundreds or thousands of complaints.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:01 am
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cormorant wrote:
Quote:

If we could narrow this down to one component, we would. However, it is a result of particular factors coming together in a very particular way and is therefore very hard to quantify. This is why so few customers have come forward with it.



This is the part I don't follow. Is he saying that the fizz is the result of several factors and conditions, and as a result, few customers have complained?

What does one have to do with the other?


Not much other than a feeble attempt to underscore the notion that the "problem" is only an issue for a minority of Mustang owners. It seems a bit ironic that the context in which Fender is saying that few customers have complained is a tacit agreement that there is an unintended sound in these amps and that the issue might well be the norm (remember the "within spec" comment?) . The real problem, in Fender's apparent view, is that some people's ears are too discriminating for this price point.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:10 pm
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Latest response from Fender

Quote:
Hi Richard,

I’m sorry to hear the Mustang didn’t fit your needs.

As you are not an owner of a Mustang I’m afraid there’s not much more I can say, other than to summarise what has been said before.

Fender has released an official statement on this subject. The statement explains that this “fizz” only occurs if certain variables come together. In these instances some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation. Nevertheless, legions of Mustang amp users have proven and agree that the Mustang amplifier series delivers great value, versatility and sound.

Any correspondence with the Board would result in the same answers. As mentioned before, this subject has been raised at the highest level, hence the official statement.

I’m sorry I have not been able to give you all the answers you were expecting but I now consider this matter closed.

Kind regards,

Matt Davey | Service Manager
Fender Musical Instruments GBI





Fender is clearly not interested in addressing this issue and it will not do anything unless its forced to. There is a massive inconsistency - on the one hand it says there really isn't a problem. And yet (allegedly) this has been referred to the highest level - odd behaviour if there is no issue!


As I've mentioned previously on several occasions, an independent examination and report by a qualified amp tech is what's needed to be able to take this further. Without technical & robust independent evidence, this isn't going to go anywhere.



If anyone's thinking of buying a Mustang III, IV or V all I can comment is that they may want to rethink their choice of amp based on the fizz issues reported here and Fender's reluctance to be open with its customers. Even though the MIII I had on approval performed well and had no fizz, I for one would certainly not now buy an MIII, IV or V amp and risk the fizz developing later.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:00 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I'm glad someone finally posted an example of the fizz, since I had no idea what people were talking about. Now that I know, I checked my Mustang V and I don't have it. Yay!

But yeah, that really is wierd and I can see why people would be upset by it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:09 pm
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I have some amp tech contacts in the US. If anyone with a fizzing amp would be prepared to have their amp examined, please let me know.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:28 am
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I bought my M3 back in March and have now tried 3 others..... all fizzed.... but! nothing else out there does the tones I want with the built in FX at this price, the price of a M3 here in Australia is RRP $649, street price just under $500. I got fixated on the fizz for awhile and the response I got for my warranty claim pissed my off for quite some time... then I starting using it at gigs....
I dont notice/hear the fizz at gigs. Of course I would like it not to fizz, but it has now paid for itself 10fold, so I'm not that bothered anymore. If I was just a home/bedroom player I would buy an M2 and be fizz free, I may still get one anyway for home use/backup.
I am certainly not trying to downplay Rockcats efforts to get some answers, I would like the problem fixed as much as anyone else....Just the chances of getting a corporation to admit fault?
No chance.
I think the more likely outcome will be that they will slip the fix into their production line at some point soon if not already done.
Cheers
Tim


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:40 am
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There certainly is a chance. I believe organisations such as the Better Business Bureau in the USA can help - provided we can gain evidence that the problem is pointing to a design defect or a component issue. I'm talking to a few people in the USA to see what help may be possible to examine a fizzing MIII.

I'll keep you posted

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:34 am
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They do admit that under some circumstances that some people might be unhappy. Quit saying they don't admit there is fizz. What they are saying is that they don't care, because their customers don't care. You ten guys don't get to create policy for Fender, deal with it.


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