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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:50 pm
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p90sdude wrote:
bborzell wrote:
I did notice your use of the word "entirely". Unfortunately for your argument, it is a meaningless throw in.

Your main point was that consumers have responsibilities in this matter, but you don't specify any other than to suggest that line noise might be at issue. Digital electronic equipment is either up to handling domestic power providers or they are not. Consumer responsibility implies that consumers are either doing something they shouldn't or not doing something they should, yet your post was silent on that point.

If there is nothing reasonable for a consumer to do in order to obtain appropriate performance from a digital electronic product, then saying they have "responsibilities" in the matter is, as I said at the top, entirely meaningless.

One of the posters mentioned that they were plugging the amp into a circuit that also was running a refrigerator. I have 7 amps 4 mixers 14 gutars and more FX and pedals than I care to count and none of those is going to reject that kind of noise without a line conditioner.

The way you put it, someone should be able to run 30' of poorly sheilded cable from their guitar to their amp and not pick up radio stations and then, in self rightous indignance, blame the amp/guitar for their ignorance when they do.

My guess is that if you went to the second link I provided at all, you just went 'blah, blah, blah' and copt your attitude.

The user is on the hook to educate themselves and use common sense, if that wasn't clear then maybe your attitude is getting in your way.

This is not to say that Fender has no resonsibility to provide reasonable noise sheilding. Surly it does. But it can't solve every worst case situation simply because the user doesn't want to be bothered with the details.



This is not the place to start getting in online fights. I see your point and argue that the consumer has no responsibility for this. I myself, am a professional musician. I know my stuff and see what you are talking about, but the power is not the case for consumer responsibility. It is Fender's. I can say that because I have hooked up to a power conditioner (not something every professional has, let alone hobbyist, club, venue, or home studio). I have hooked it up to seven different guitars, several different buildings with several different rooms and outlits. No dice.

Let's please end this argument on a public thread, it is making us all look like we are frustrated, which we are. But, it is not constructive in any way and is going to snowball into uselessness for anyone that stumbles on this thread for meaningful information.

Thank You


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:41 am
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Hi everyone,
Just like to add myself to the list of Mustang 3 owners with the fizz. I am hoping Fender can fix this with a firmware update and I'll give them another week or so before returning it for a refund. I very much doubt it is a quality of power issue cos here in Australia we have 240v. So even different power supplies in the amps, 110v for you guy's in the US and 220-240v for us here, are showing the same symptoms. So to me that means it's not a power or power supply problem, more than likely and hopefully a software issue.
Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:06 am
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As i mentioned before i think the fizz sound is coming from the display as i recognise the sound in an old mp3 player i have (Creative Zen MicroPhoto).
However with this mp3 player you can (automaticaly) turn of the display and then the fizz sound goes away.
I also mentioned the solution will probably be better shielding because i think the display is "leaking" some sort of electric charge into the power amp.
As it turns out the fizz is not always present, people go to the shop and the fizz goes away but back at home it's there again.
Now this makes perfectly sence with my assumption regarding the display.
It's not a matter of quality of power it's a matter of proper grounding.
If the grouding is good the leakage of the display will flow away, if the grounding is not ok the leakage will seek a way out through the power amp (and probably through the guitar cable to your hands...).
I'm sure proper grounding will get rid of the fizz, is there anyone who can check my theory?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:33 am
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Henky wrote:
As i mentioned before i think the fizz sound is coming from the display as i recognise the sound in an old mp3 player i have (Creative Zen MicroPhoto).
However with this mp3 player you can (automaticaly) turn of the display and then the fizz sound goes away.
I also mentioned the solution will probably be better shielding because i think the display is "leaking" some sort of electric charge into the power amp.
As it turns out the fizz is not always present, people go to the shop and the fizz goes away but back at home it's there again.
Now this makes perfectly sence with my assumption regarding the display.
It's not a matter of quality of power it's a matter of proper grounding.
If the grouding is good the leakage of the display will flow away, if the grounding is not ok the leakage will seek a way out through the power amp (and probably through the guitar cable to your hands...).
I'm sure proper grounding will get rid of the fizz, is there anyone who can check my theory?


While I am of the opinion that the LCD screen is a good candidate for the culprit here, I doubt that the theory that stores have inherently better grounding than residential units would prove out to be the case. Most music stores I have been in appear to be a puzzle palace of electrical cords and extension strips.

My guess is that there is as much variability in grounding excellence among music stores as exists in any other structures, including residential units. But that doesn't necessarily eliminate the LCD as the bad guy.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:00 am
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Have any of you who have the fizz problem really bad sent an audio clip to the support guys at Fender?

Also, I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe all of the suspected causes may be guilty as charged.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:23 am
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After 2 weeks I brought back the Mustang III and upgraded to an HD500. Sorry Fender, you've lost one customer here. The Mustang III that I had was unplayable. I didn't bother trying it out at the store, it had the same fizz at my place and at our rehearsal place, I don't think I should have to try and make a piece of gear work, it either performs its intended purpose and functions correctly or it doesn't. ALL my other gear and the new HD500 do not suffer from this same problem.

I hope Fender officially communicates something (hopefully a fix or at least an explanation) to the forum members who have purchased this amp and are reporting an issue.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:40 am
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Hi Everybody,

I would like to let everyone know that I have heard back from Fender, and they have acknowledged the issue and will be making an announcement as soon as they have something to report to us. The fact that they told me that they are going to "make an announcement" instead of saying that "they'll let me know", I think, affirms that it has been recognized and it is being taken seriously.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:43 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
Have any of you who have the fizz problem really bad sent an audio clip to the support guys at Fender?

Also, I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe all of the suspected causes may be guilty as charged.

O.


I have directed them to the clip posted at the beginning of this thread. However, I was thinking about making one myself. When I play my jazz box on a clean setting, WHOO-BOYY!! is it bad. You can really hear it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:50 pm
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I spoke to Fender several days ago and had posted a note that they said an announcement was forthcoming. There has never been any doubt in my mind that this was really an issue (despite the folks who have suggested that the reporters were simply complainers). And I have had no doubt that Fender would make it right. I might be wrong on that count, but I don't think so.

I'd say give them another 10 days and then expect to see something.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:10 pm
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baerashbrewer wrote:
Orcatraz wrote:
Have any of you who have the fizz problem really bad sent an audio clip to the support guys at Fender?

Also, I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe all of the suspected causes may be guilty as charged.

O.


I have directed them to the clip posted at the beginning of this thread. However, I was thinking about making one myself. When I play my jazz box on a clean setting, WHOO-BOYY!! is it bad. You can really hear it.


I think that sending a clip directly to the manufacturer is more effective but that's just me. Links are fine for less pressing issues but I think this one is important enough that it should be a direct but polite message to Fender. It is after all, causing some buyers to return their Fender product.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:24 pm
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Yet a bunch of us have the LCD with ZERO fizz so there goes that theory.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:28 pm
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
Yet a bunch of us have the LCD with ZERO fizz so there goes that theory.


Manufacturers change suppliers. Suppliers sometimes make a small number of out of spec parts as part of a larger order. The absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.


Last edited by bborzell on Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:31 pm
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
Yet a bunch of us have the LCD with ZERO fizz so there goes that theory

Not at all because my theory is the electric charge leakage of the display will not result in the fizz sound with proper grounding.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:55 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
Have any of you who have the fizz problem really bad sent an audio clip to the support guys at Fender?
When i called (twice) i told both people about the clip and the noted it (one of them was Loren). I'm guessing they have heard lots about this issue based on just the number of people in this thread saying they have called.

bborzell wrote:
I'd say give them another 10 days and then expect to see something.
I think this is why companies wait until they have an answer before making any promises, so when it is 11 or 12 days, people aren't even more up in arms. I hope it is soon though.

LaCab wrote:
I very much doubt it is a quality of power issue cos here in Australia we have 240v. So even different power supplies in the amps, 110v for you guy's in the US and 220-240v for us here
My guess is that it is cleanliness of power vs amount.

Henky wrote:
Musicmaster2 wrote:
Yet a bunch of us have the LCD with ZERO fizz so there goes that theory
Not at all because my theory is the electric charge leakage of the display will not result in the fizz sound with proper grounding.
I believe it could be both, but i have had the exact same issues with digital devices with no displays. Either way, the dirty power theory makes the most sense to me. Watch, in reality it will be just a backwards wire or half-chewed yellow gumdrop.

Henky wrote:
I'm sure proper grounding will get rid of the fizz, is there anyone who can check my theory?
Can't you just open your amp and disconnect the display temporarily? I would do it but i had to send mine back before the return window.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:06 am
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bborzell wrote:
I'd say give them another 10 days and then expect to see something.
polishbroadcast wrote:
I think this is why companies wait until they have an answer before making any promises, so when it is 11 or 12 days, people aren't even more up in arms. I hope it is soon.


My choice of 10 days didn't actually get pulled out of any bodily orifice; it came from simple math. The Fender rep I spoke to knew that I was planning to buy a new amp of the Mustang III class and suggested that, if I didn't have to make an immediate purchase, then I might consider holding off for two weeks in order to have better certainty for my purchase decision. That discussion was 4 days before I mentioned, "...I'd give them another 10 days...".

It is true that it might take longer, but I think there is a better than even chance that they will come in right at the 2 weeks window. But, I have been wrong before; I remember that time back in 1993...


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