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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:11 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Posts: 621
Why should Fender fix something that they claim isn't busted? It's just those damned "discriminating guitarists"!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:12 am
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jwoertz: Do you get the problem also with headphones? Previous posts on the topic pointed to a problem in the power amp stage, not a digital problem. If it's the power amp, perhaps you could get it solved by replacing the amp.

What's the manufacture date on yours, by the way?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:36 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
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Location: PA, USA
DOM = 02/2011

(UPDATED) Sounds fine through the headphones. I have no box to return the amp and am not sure if Fender will fix it if I send it back for a month. Man, this is not good. I should have stuck with my previous setup.

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Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
Effects: Line 6 M13


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:13 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
Has anyone had better or worse fizz with different guitar cables?

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Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:20 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
I just spoke with Fender customer service. The technician (nice guy) was aware of the issue and said there is a PHYSICAL fix they can do to correct the problem. He sounded very familiar with it and said very confidently that it is fixable. He would not tell me what the problem is, but only that it was definitely repairable. Now I get to send my amp out for repairs, for who knows how long. FUN.

_________________
Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
Effects: Line 6 M13


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:45 am
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Amateur
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:22 am
Posts: 112
Location: BC, Canada
I have owned a Mustang I for over a year. I love it. I am ready to buy a Mustang III but have been delaying until this issue is resolved. I come here almost daily hoping to read one of two things from Fender:

1) There is a fix readily available.

2) All models after a certain production date no longer have this problem.

I think highly of Fender, so I have to admit that their silence is disappointing. I can't believe that they aren't well aware of exactly what the problem is, and what it would take to fix it. I suspect however, that the real issue is that if they admit there is a problem, they now face a fortune worth of recalling/repairing etc, for what was basically an inexpensive/low margin amp.

BUT, I think they still owe us an up front and honest answer. It's too bad that it's likely the economics have been preventing that.

I wonder is there anything that we, as consumers can do, that would help relieve the pressure and fast track this thing? IE: If the fix costs a few bucks, would we be willing to pay it ourselves? Maybe. But it's hard to say, without knowing exactly what the problem is, and how much it would cost to fix. Catch 22.

What alternatives could Fender consider? If it costs too much to ship and repair an amp that retails at this low price point, would they issue us a credit/or trade-in towards the purchase of a new post-problem model. IE: at/or close too cost.

Curious to hear what others might think about possible solutions.

The Mustang amp is a winner. It is an innovative and great sounding product, at a price point that can't be beat. This fizz is a glitch in the development process that I hope doesn't completely derail this excellent product. It is a good idea, who's time has come. I hope it doesn't become an Edsel.

Doc


Last edited by Doc Waters on Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:53 am
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Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
My Mustang III is "this close" to going back for good. I'm not going to pay $100 to have the amp shipped both ways for repair. I'll keep my Roland Cube 80X and TC Nova System and call it a day.

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Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
Effects: Line 6 M13


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:25 pm
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Amateur
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am
Posts: 184
jwoertz wrote:
What happened to the firmware updates that fixed the fizz? I have 1.8 and there is no fix in there for sure. I remember reading about one of the prior updates fixing the fizz. No? Seriously, this is just beyond comprehension, how Fender could release this amp with these issues. Inexpensive or not, this is really, really bad.


Well ... it kinda depends on what ya call "fizz". First to surface were problems identified as "obnoxious tail end distortion" ... later to surface were problems identified as "fizz" ... there are several threads here on each. Each has been talked about as being different from the other.

"Obnoxious tail end distortion" applied to the MI and MII. When all the talk started the MIII to MV were not yet on the market.

"Fizz" applied to MIII to MV. In general it wasn't present on the MI or MII.

As to my case I have one of the first MII's and it had more than it's share of what was described as "obnoxious tail end distortion" and a firmware update fixed it to my satisfaction. Sorry ... I dunno which update did it for me but it was the first update issued after Loren Howard of Fender acknowledged the problem in early 2011. From what I've read here the update fixed the "obnoxious tail end distortion" problem for most MI and MII users.

Unfortunately it seems most users report that software updates have done little or nothing to help the MIII through MV owners who have amps that "fizz".

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:28 pm
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Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
I just sent the Mustang III back for a refund. I've had enough.

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Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
Effects: Line 6 M13


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:56 am
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Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 226
jwoertz wrote:
I just spoke with Fender customer service. The technician (nice guy) was aware of the issue and said there is a PHYSICAL fix they can do to correct the problem. He sounded very familiar with it and said very confidently that it is fixable. He would not tell me what the problem is, but only that it was definitely repairable. Now I get to send my amp out for repairs, for who knows how long. FUN.



Could this be true? They've figured it out but are keeping it quiet? Is there an announcement in the works?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:16 am
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Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
He wouldn't give up the fix but it does exist....

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PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:47 pm
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Amateur
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am
Posts: 184
jwoertz wrote:
He wouldn't give up the fix but it does exist....


Funny ...

How many months has it been that we've been talking about this problem? 570 posts alone in this thread since June 11th ... many other earlier threads as well ... probably about 1000 posts total.

What have we heard from any Mustang owner regarding the exact cause of the fizz and the exact fix? Pretty much zip ... IMO nothing I'd hang my hat on ... no flood of posts stating "I took my amp in and they fixed it" ... mostly conjecture ... mostly "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows another guy that was told by some other dude that whatever was the cause and whatever was the fix".

What have we heard directly from Fender? Nothing ... absolutely nothing ... well ... except that owners of fizzy amps are not using the right combination of settings ... or the right combination of equipment ... or that it's all in their head because they listen too closely. They haven't said what the cause it nor the fix. Fender hasn't said jack.

Mustang owners are NOT reporting that their amps have been fixed by Fender and there is scant evidence that Fender even cares about the problem.

So ... if either a Mustang owner or some Fender guy says the fizz is fixable and a fix is available from Fender ... who do we believe when the fact is ... WE SEE NO EVIDENCE OF IT ... NONE ...

I'll believe that Fender has a fix when I see concrete evidence of it as reported by users who have had their Mustangs repaired by Fender. Until then ... IMO nothing that Fender says is credible ... and that any expressed faith in Fender by users is wishful thinking ... because ... brother ... we ain't seen any evidence of Fender credibility.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:32 pm
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Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
I agree. It sounded too good to be true. That's why I send my Mustang III back for a refund. They'll never fix the fizz on the M3. It's a shame because I was going to get two of them and two 4-button footswitches. But the fizz thing killed it for me.

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Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
Effects: Line 6 M13


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:07 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 262
Before coming up with a 'fix' you need to know the cause.

As far as I am aware, no-one (Fender or non-Fender) has ever authoritatively diagnosed WHY there is the fizz and why it only affects some amps and not others.

If its software, you'd expect Fender to be able to acknowledge the issue and fix it with a firmware upgrade or at least be able to confirm that it's software (eg an algorhythm issue) and that is is being worked on.

So, the greater likelihood is that it's hardware ie a component issue which worst case might involve an expensive, embarrassing & potentially reputation damaging product recall - and this might account for Fender's consistent lack of response.

So, logic suggests it's more likely to be a hardware issue. On this reasonable hypothesis, has anyone taken their MIII to a reputable amp tech for an independent, professional, written report/opinion that could be provided to Fender as evidence?

It seems to me that without some hard concrete facts/evidence from at least one reputable amp tech, you're banging your heads against a brick wall and you won't force Fender to respond and deal with the problem.

I KNOW you shouldn't have to do this.

I KNOW that you think the fizz is self-evident

I KNOW there's cost involved (but you can mitigate cost by clubbing together a few dollars each to get ONE fizzy M3 tested professionally)

I KNOW you can return the amp & buy something else

I KNOW there are those that think these posts will pressure Fender (but they don't seem to have done so to date).

But for those keeping their M3 I also know that Fender appears to be doing nothing - so the bottom line and the cold hard truth (however unpallatable) is it's up to all of YOU as the customer to take some positive action if you GENUINELY want to progress maters rather than just moan on forum which is getting you NOWHERE with Fender! Sometimes in life YOU have to take personal responsibility in order that you can can force others to do so.

I've raised this before by the way and there were some (sorry to be blunt) 'naive' responses as to why forum pressure should continue - IT HASN'T WORKED!

So it's YOUR call guys! You have the power to do something - but ONLY if you really WANT to and are prepared to club together! If you want to take on a big corporation like Fender, you have to provide irrefutable, reliable, professional, third-party HARD WRITTEN EVIDENCE. Those are the facts of life. Otherwise....you may as well just close the thread.

Rich :?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:17 am
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Rockcat wrote:

I KNOW there are those that think these posts will pressure Fender (but they don't seem to have done so to date).

But for those keeping their M3 I also know that Fender appears to be doing nothing - so the bottom line and the cold hard truth (however unpallatable) is it's up to all of YOU as the customer to take some positive action if you GENUINELY want to progress maters rather than just moan on forum which is getting you NOWHERE with Fender! Sometimes in life YOU have to take personal responsibility in order that you can can force others to do so.

I've raised this before by the way and there were some (sorry to be blunt) 'naive' responses as to why forum pressure should continue - IT HASN'T WORKED!


Well ... it's Fender's forum ... I'd hope they take notice. But I agree with ya ... I doubt that anything we say about the subject in this forum holds much sway with Fender. OTOH ... word eventually gets around ... and threads such as this serve as a warning to others who have taken the effort do a little research before their purchase. Although I have no proof, I feel comfortable in saying that the bad press has cost Fender sales as well as service costs and will continue to do so until dissatisfied Mustang owners go silent or until Fender does something about it.

Frankly ... if we want to get Fender's attention ... I'd suggest that some supremely PO'd owner of a fizzy Mustang ... an owner who is plain flat fed up ... I'd suggest that he torch the darn thing and post a video of it on YouTube. But alas ... one can only wish ... (sigh) ...

KenB


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