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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:02 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Just pick up a fizzless V.2 around the end of March.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:09 pm
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What is that?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:09 pm
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The new fizzless V.2 Mustangs to be intro'd at NAMM next week.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:25 pm
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I hope as much as anyone that the new mustangs are indeed fizzless. But right now that claim is based only on conjecture and wishfull thinking. Or do you have some sort of proof?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:30 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
I hope as much as anyone that the new mustangs are indeed fizzless. But right now that claim is based only on conjecture and wishfull thinking. Or do you have some sort of proof?


There's no evidence whatsoever. People are jumping to conclusions. The ads don't even say "redesigned" or "new and improved." All we can tell is that they added an xlr jack and upgraded the software. For all we know the same factory in China is still pumping out the same fizzy hardware.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:53 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Technically you are correct, sir. But logically flawed. Fender didn't get where they are today by being complete ^$%$#@^&* baboons. By perpetuating Fizzgate with a new round of fizzy hardware knowing the boo birds are out there just waiting for them--they'd be inviting a world of PR and legal hurt upon themselves for no reason.

Now I'm not saying there aren't OCD folks out there who can always hear subtle fizz on any MIII. There are. It's a cheap digital system. But I'm talking about the awful examples we've all heard on the cloud: brutal, dealbreaking fizz anybody could hear. Those days are gone.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:17 am
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Hello,

I've got a question. Has somebody the new Fender Mustang III V.2? Is the fizz-problem still unresolved?

Sorry, if you answered it already in this topic , but I didn't read every 96 pages.

Thank you and kind regards.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:40 am
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apfelbaum19 wrote:
Hello,

I've got a question. Has somebody the new Fender Mustang III V.2? Is the fizz-problem still unresolved?

Sorry, if you answered it already in this topic , but I didn't read every 96 pages.

Thank you and kind regards.


Yepp, gone forever!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:09 am
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Absolutely, the fizz is gone and the Mustang III v2 sounds fantastic. Plus it now has a direct out!

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Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
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Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:01 pm
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My V.2 III is fizzless. I've had it a month. Love it!! Bought the four button footswitch also. The
two version one III's I had did 'fizz'. Those puppies went back to GC. Happy so far! Like the tolex
better than the fragile carbon-looking covering that the V.1's have also. Bob


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:32 am
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With the way information is freely exchanged in this day and age I am extremely shocked and somewhat saddened to see this problem play out the way it has to this point.
Hearing all of these negative things about how Fender treats it's customers is a real turn off to buying any of their products.
I was recently considering getting a CIJ paisley strat from my local dealer, but I think I will refrain because of this treatment.
I fail to see why it would be such a big deal to save face (and customers) and do the right thing here.
IMO at least offer to exchange anyone's fizzy Mk1 Mustang for a Fizzless Mk2 at Fenders expense.
I bet there are a lot of people who would, at this point, be glad to even pay the shipping to be able to unload their mk1's?
They shouldn't have to but it would at least be a "I'll meet you in the middle" type of thing.
Good luck to everyone trying to get something resolved in this issue, it looks like you are going to need it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:38 pm
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Hi, I can confirm that fizz or digital aliasing issue doesn't exist in M3 V.2 in clean tones but i don't know what to think about crunch, overdriven, high-gain tones..

I and Jedi2b with other 5/6 forum members owner's of new Mustang 3 V.2, started a discussion in new post few days ago..
at this point it is clear that fizz/aliasing or other additional unwanted modulation issue cannot be absolutely an hardware issue as we thought in the past..
it is "just" a software issue .. that affects from saturated amps to high-gain one..
the more the input level to amp the more the depth of that modulation..

I hope all our concurrent feedbacks can be a constructive action to exhort Fender to find a solution via a firmware update.

Please look at our post and tell us your opinion too..
"Unwanted modulation on drive tones on Mustang 3 V2"
http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=85759

thanks
Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:17 am
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jedi2b wrote:
Trey803 wrote:
I have heard some people say the v2's still have the fizz. IMO the fizz was blown out of proportion and it is very very subtle.


LOL I was doubting about posting about it because it could start WW3, but what the heck.
Having experienced the fizz on my old M3 v1 I know how it sounds... I bought a M3 V2 a couple months ago and the other day, after tweaking some presets I discovered that under certain circumstances, the V2 ALSO have the fizz.

In the case of the V2 the fizz is really difficult to get (very precise presets), and a degree of magnitude less than V1 to the point that complete silence is required to perceive it. but is there :) but rest assured 95% of people will not be able to hear it, that subtle it is.


I think this is important to note, because the fizz in the v.1 amps came on gradually for many, and Fender still chooses not to talk about the issue.

Jedi2b, I wish you had kept your MIII v.1 so you could do a side-by-side comparison, but I respect your skills and value your judgement. The fizz on my v.1 is only a problem for me when using the Deluxe Reverb model with my Fender Jazzmaster's rhythm circuit (which is really just the neck pickup with most of the tone rolled off). I have not tried out the v.2, but anyone who plays jazz ought to be aware that this is a potential issue.

Thanks for the heads-up and your honesty, Jedi2b.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:30 am
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cormorant wrote:
jedi2b wrote:
Trey803 wrote:
I have heard some people say the v2's still have the fizz. IMO the fizz was blown out of proportion and it is very very subtle.


LOL I was doubting about posting about it because it could start WW3, but what the heck.
Having experienced the fizz on my old M3 v1 I know how it sounds... I bought a M3 V2 a couple months ago and the other day, after tweaking some presets I discovered that under certain circumstances, the V2 ALSO have the fizz.

In the case of the V2 the fizz is really difficult to get (very precise presets), and a degree of magnitude less than V1 to the point that complete silence is required to perceive it. but is there :) but rest assured 95% of people will not be able to hear it, that subtle it is.


I think this is important to note, because the fizz in the v.1 amps came on gradually for many, and Fender still chooses not to talk about the issue.

Jedi2b, I wish you had kept your MIII v.1 so you could do a side-by-side comparison, but I respect your skills and value your judgement. The fizz on my v.1 is only a problem for me when using the Deluxe Reverb model with my Fender Jazzmaster's rhythm circuit (which is really just the neck pickup with most of the tone rolled off). I have not tried out the v.2, but anyone who plays jazz ought to be aware that this is a potential issue.

Thanks for the heads-up and your honesty, Jedi2b.


Hi Cormorant,
Jedi2b and i talked for several days also in private messagges or email about the problems in driven tones in old series (V.1) and also new series V.2.
It is right to clarify again that since firmware update 1.09 or surely 1.10, except possible issue in some defective amps, the unwanted modulation called "fizz" was completely gone for what regards clean tones.. in every clean model tones available in the mustang 3 v.1 (which i have no more)
But probably the border line is thin : i mean, the more your tone moves from pure clean with low gain toward near a mild crunch tone the more you can start to ear again the fizz or unwanted modulation. The analog to digital converters section evidently is virtually unable to manage input levels smoothly above a certain threshold even if they come from powerful humbuckers pickups or with a lot of bass frequencies.. if the threshold is exceeded in some way, the circuit can produce hard clipping on waveform.. so you get all those additional harmonics that don't belong to original signal.

So who usually plays with real clean tones wouldn't be disappointed also with new version 2 amps..

The potenzial issue you mentioned become the rule rather when you start to drive a model amp to get a mild crunch even just raising its gain at medium to high levels ,
then when you drive a preamp stage with a stompbox od/booster/fuzz model (or external effect from a pedalboard) ...
so from simply natural crunch tones to overdriven sustained tones obtained by clean chanels overdriven by stomp/fuzz at high gains you can get the unwanted modulation entirely similar to old fizz and that could be a potenzial issue.. in styles ranging from country-rock , blues to classic rock/hard rock.
As said a workaround could be if you base your preset in an high-gain model (american '90, fender supersonic..)
and get the sustain and saturation/distorsion just from its preamp , without any additional od/fuzz stomp: then you can virtually prevent or greatly reduce the unwanted modulation but you have to settle the tones and character that kind of amplifiers can give you compared to vintage models. And forget about other types of matches (several other vintage models + stompbox) that in the real things are not just possible but even give beautiful musical results.
Another workaround if you use a neutral preamp like Preamp Studio model with stompbox distorsions/fuzz.. in several other cases you have to use low to very low gain settings (depending on the amp model) to be able to add stompboxes at mid to high gain levels and counter as much as possible or reduce the occurrence of buzzing, sitar-like modulations, phaser-like modulation.
Unfortunately, as you may have read, Fender has already sentenced that it will not do firmware updates based on the behaviors that have been described (and tested as well even by them) on the forum a few weeks ago.

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:55 am
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frondizi wrote:
It is right to clarify again that since firmware update 1.09 or surely 1.10, except possible issue in some defective amps, the unwanted modulation called "fizz" was completely gone for what regards clean tones.. in every clean model tones available in the mustang 3 v.1


Frondizi, I can't really comment on the rest of your post, but the above statement is just not true. No firmware update ever fixed the fizz in the MIII, IV or V v.1 amps. I have the latest firmware in my MIII and it still has the fizz. I'm not saying it's a problem for 99% of what I play, just that it is there.


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