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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:39 am
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Thank you for your time, I appreciate the andwer. That is very unfortunate. Too bad buying the Mustang is like playing roulette.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:17 pm
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Well I guess is 100% sure to say now the problem is strictly related to the power amp hardware (not even to the link between pre-amp and power amp)

The bad news is that means this is a hardware issue with some component of the power amp. For Fender to solve this this would require a massive recall of the affected amps and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The better news is that of ALL the parts of the amp itself, probably the solid state, multipurpose power amp is the simplest and cheapest part (possibly cheaper than the wood cabinet itself). I mean , I can build myself a mono 60 watts power amp for less than 20$, so it's like 10$ tops for Fender.

I saw a picture of the insides of Mustang 1 the other day and the power amp module is easily identifiable. I did not found any photo of the internals of a mustang 3-4-5 but should be similar (if anybody has one that would be greatly appreciated). If that is the case maybe a 1 to 1 replacement could be made for the small power amp.

Here is an example power amp that can be built by anybody with minimum experience in electronics (it's 4 by 2 inches with 10 components):
[url]http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_lm3886_amp.pdf
[/url]


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:18 pm
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I bought a used MIII a while back. The previous owner decided he needed to pay the rent and sold the amp for $200....so not a big investment for me. I would not have any issues at all replacing components in my amp so long as I had some reasonable directions. I have a small electronics lab and enough training to make any changes necessary to replace the "defective" section in the MIII.

If any detailed plan becomes available I will be right in line to dig in. What's my risk anyway? A $200 amp. I can crap $200 and not think twice about it to put it bluntly.

I'll be lurking.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:30 pm
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Hey Bluelvis, if you feel like it and you can open you amp, it would be great if you can take a close up, but detailed picture of the board where the speaker is connected in particular.

chances are, takin apart the bottom cover of the Mustang 3, you will have it in front of you, but i never opened this amp before.

If any other person has this kind of info it would be greatly appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:31 pm
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Posted over a year ago; knock yourself out, cowboy. Some of us have read every single message in this long, long thread.

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t39 ... ang3_1.jpg
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t39 ... ang3_2.jpg
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t39 ... ang3_3.jpg
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t39 ... ang3_4.jpg
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t39 ... ang3_5.jpg

jedi2b wrote:
Hey Bluelvis, if you feel like it and you can open you amp, it would be great if you can take a close up, but detailed picture of the board where the speaker is connected in particular.

chances are, takin apart the bottom cover of the Mustang 3, you will have it in front of you, but i never opened this amp before.

If any other person has this kind of info it would be greatly appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:14 pm
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yeah I saw that hack. Thanks for the info anyway.

I think we should focus on replacing the faulty power amp and not connecting an external one to the phones output, as you will not get the same output from the preamp if you connect to the headphones (they include a speaker emulation that you don't want if you are going through the real speaker later). In my opinon we should focus on the connection from the preamp to the power amp.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:31 pm
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brucefulton wrote:


Would have been cool if you'd have posted pictures of the output section of the amp! Thanks for playing, though.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:08 am
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I am building a rack rig for my multi effects pedals, Fender Mustang Floor and a Zoom G5. I tested the Zoom yesterday and it sounded really good. Tonight I tested the Mustang Floor and the cleans are amazing, as good as my tube amps. I A/B'd them against a Blues Deluxe, Blues Deville 410 and an Egnater Tweaker 15 going through the same 2 x 12 cab with two 16 ohm Texas Heats. The amp I am using is a QSC GX5 way over powered, but I figured it would give me the head room I want and I was right. With the multi effects hooked straight into the amp my overdrive pedals sound pretty good going straight into both units. They were kinda muddy when I ran them through my mixer, but snapped that the preamps in the mixer were getting in the way of the signal.

The over drives I am running into the multi effects are a EH Soul Preacher, Hardwire CM2, Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet, Big Muff with Tone/Wicker and a MXR 10 Band EQ.

I ordered an Odyssey 3U soft rack to stuff the QSC and a Lexicon MX200 Effects Processor into... Probably will not use the Lexicon when I use the rig as a guitar amp, but it sounds really good in a PA setup, which this is going to be doing double duty as when I am not using it as a guitar amp. The amp only weighs in at around 26lbs and the cab is about 48lbs. Pretty good for 22 different amps with the Zoom G5 and 13 amps with the Mustang Floor and it has a small carbon footprint....

Since I have the cab rigged up in stereo I can have both effects units hooked up in mono for a two 1 x 12 speaker setup. Then two people can jam or I can make loops with my Boss RC3 with one guitar and jam against them with the other guitar. I want to get a stereo A/B so I can have two stereo guitar rigs at the ready.

A note about that QSC GX5 amp, the fan is really loud. I found a 12db fan so that is going to quite it down a lot. You don't really notice it unless you are in a small room and playing at low levels. When it is cranked up, you ain't gonna hear nothing but good clean tone...

Image

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:47 am
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Okay this is the best picture we got so far from the power supply + power amp board. Unfortunately the angle does not help at all in this case.

Image

Some interesting points:
-the power amp looks like a single op-amp module similar to the GGG kit i posted before
-there is apparently a single connection from the PS+amp board to the rest of the boards, possibly carrying power to the other boards and carrying back the pre-amp signal and the master volume pot signal, we are going to need all this for the amp replacement
-it looks like there is a spot to the right that could receive a new power amp, so the complete mod would be totally invisible

again if anybody can take several close up pictures of the board in question that should get us moving. Of particular importance would be the number written on the power amp chip as knowing this will give us a lot of information about the power supply feed we have and will point us in the right direction to find a replacement circuit.

I have found that the circuit I mentionned in previous posts is pretty popular and you can buy it assembled from china for around 20 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LM3886TF-LM3886-Amplifier-Amp-Assembled-Board-KIT-/260876033757


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:50 pm
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Hey jedi2b, thanks for posting that link to that amp board. My tinkering mind is getting some ideas for that thing...

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:27 am
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Took a chance and ordered the Mustang III. I did it with my eyes open, hoping that it won't exhibit the "fizz."

If it does, I'll return it and probably wipe my hands of DSP -- or at least Fender's.

I'm hoping this works out.

:?:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:41 pm
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Frankly, having tried several Mustang 3 and 4's I have to say all of them do exhibit some fizz, some more than others. In the case of my amp it comes and goes, from nonexistent most of the time to a little bit some days.

The thing is, most people simply can not hear the fizz (we are talking sound levels maybe 6 to 10 dB less than the actual guitar sound, particularly in the not so bad cases, that are high frequency and normally short duration, so if they play low volume, or if they play with background music or as part of a band and if they have not a very good hearing, chances are they are going to miss it) and some other people I asked said "What? is that little distortion people are making all the fuzz about?"

So I'm pretty confident many many people do have it but they dont hear it or they simply don't care. And that is the reason Fender will do nothing about it.

Personally never came across a case as bad as the one in the first post of this thread. That is awful. But for those people that do care, or have a bad case, and would like to improve the performance of their amp, maybe a solution is possible as I discussed in previous posts.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:35 pm
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jedi2b, if I may ask, do you own an MIII/IV/V? I haven't read every page of this thread, but what's your take on this? Do you own the amp? Have you kept it? In your view, how big a deal is it?

I'm getting the MIII as an Xmas gift. If I need to return it in early January, my Sweetwater rep says that won't be a problem.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:50 pm
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Sure, I do own a M3 for around a year now. I'm planning to keep it for as long as it works, which it seems it would be for a long time. If at some point it starts to degrade I will do some sort of fix, but frankly, for 250$ (that's what I paid) you can't go wrong.

I mean a celestion speaker is close to 120$ alone. And the mustang floor is 200$ and you don't get a speaker, or a power amp.

The pre-amp is possibly the best and more versatile I have seen, and frankly some of the emulations, as the Deluxe 57, Supersonic or Plexi are worth the price of the amp alone.

You can use it as a powered monitor (and a loud one at it!) or as a gig or practice amp. Or even as a recording amp without even using a mic. And all this weighing only 35 pounds or so.

If at some point I have to repair or fix it myself I will not doubt for a second on doing it as in any case the resale value of a 250$ amp is going to be nil anyway.

My latest setup includes the M3 on top of an old Traynor amp with a 15" speaker connected to the effects send of the mustang. The combined sound of the 12" plus the 15" is worth a million dollars.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:56 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
Sure, I do own a M3 for around a year now. I'm planning to keep it for as long as it works ...


So you don't have the fizz or you've made peace with it or you think it's much ado about nothing?

Thanks for the thoughts.


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