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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:54 am
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Well, there goes that idea I was gonna post this here -
Quote:
OK, one more crazy idea...

Have any of you with a fizzy MIII tried hooking it up to an external speaker? It should be one that you know sounds good and is not fizzy.
Just trying eliminate easy variables.
O.


Waaah :(
O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:50 pm
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Yup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x_TXWYAH7o


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:26 pm
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Upping the topic for the Fender boys because this still hasn't been addressed yet!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:45 am
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How does everyone feel about this? If the problem can't be fixed soon, should Fender replace it with a new amp that has been tested?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:34 am
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baerashbrewer wrote:
How does everyone feel about this? If the problem can't be fixed soon, should Fender replace it with a new amp that has been tested?


The consumer side of me says, yes, that would be the right thing to do.

The devil's advocate side of me says, what about those who've taken their amp back to the store only to find no fizz there?

One solution might be to let the customer take a different Mustang home even if the fizz is not heard at the store. Have the store mark that fizzy one and in fact every allegedly fizzy one and have one of the techs or a gigging employee from that store take it home and/or to a gig and check for fizz. The idea is to give more weight and credence to the issue or dispell the claim entirely.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:48 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
baerashbrewer wrote:
How does everyone feel about this? If the problem can't be fixed soon, should Fender replace it with a new amp that has been tested?


The consumer side of me says, yes, that would be the right thing to do.

The devil's advocate side of me says, what about those who've taken their amp back to the store only to find no fizz there?

One solution might be to let the customer take a different Mustang home even if the fizz is not heard at the store. Have the store mark that fizzy one and in fact every allegedly fizzy one and have one of the techs or a gigging employee from that store take it home and/or to a gig and check for fizz. The idea is to give more weight and credence to the issue or dispell the claim entirely.

O.


I'm still skeptical about those who have taken it back to the store and couldn't hear it. Instrument dealers tend to be very noisy. I tried one at the music store, and could barely hear it because of the background music, people talking, people playing instruments, etc. But I could hear it, the dealer couldn't, or claimed he couldn't.

Besides, still, I have tried my amp at so many different places, with all sorts of powering options, some powering options that any good venue or studio would use. And the fact, that it didn't even change the quality of the fizz, let alone get rid of it, really, really makes me skeptical.

Besides, same point as before, if other amps don't have the problem, why should this one. Also, not to mention the guy on the other thread that sent his amp back 4 times and had the same problem every time.

I don't know though, if we only knew for certain what the problem is.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:55 am
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I am just going to sum up what has been discussed and found:

EDIT: Here is the sound that I recorded. http://soundcloud.com/user4316001/musta ... range-fizz

EDIT: A poster verified that running through an external power amp removes the fizz.

"I am able to use the amp now by using an external power amp (that was previously used for near field monitors). Guitar > MIII > send to power amp > back to MIII speaker. This bypasses the MIII power section completely. Works great, no fizz and the patches work normally. "

Tried the following:

Surge Protectors
Surge Suppressors
APC UPS units
Power Conditioners
Attaching an external speaker cab
Moving to different buildings/different rooms
EDIT: No fizz coming from AUX source (MP3 player, etc)

Possibilities:

LCD Screen
Shielding
Firmware issue
Power Quality
Power Rating

Other issues:

Noticeable by non-musicians (not "looking for it")
Not the same as other thread: "Tail-End Distortion"
Not on all amps
Been noted that happens on Mustang III, IV, and V
Issues have been recorded internationally
Reviews have been submitted on Musicians Friend and Sweetwater acknowledging the issue
Strangely all reviews have been removed from Musicians Friend

I am going to try to make a new recording soon. I'll post it hear soon.


Last edited by baerashbrewer on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:23 pm
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baerashbrewer wrote:
How does everyone feel about this? If the problem can't be fixed soon, should Fender replace it with a new amp that has been tested?
I think all the amps are the same. Part of the joy/pain of PCB's is they are so consistent. Obviously if you have a problem, it will be in a date range for a component set, like when they do recalls for certain serial numbers. Since the dates and people who do and don't have an issue don't line up at all, my feeling is that all the amps are the same, the big variable is where they are being used.

People have reported (i've experienced this as well) that the amp is fine at the store, and not at home. If the amp is fine for you at both places, then you are fortunate, but you may play some club down the road, or be at a rehearsal space, and hear the noise. I don't really think there are good or bad batch.

So to answer the original question, i don't think a "good tested" amp would make any difference to the people having issues. It has to be a component swap or firmware update. Unless you mean another Fender amp, then i'll take a SuperSonic or Deluxe Reverb please. :D


Last edited by polishbroadcast on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 pm
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baerashbrewer wrote:
I'm still skeptical about those who have taken it back to the store and couldn't hear it. Instrument dealers tend to be very noisy.
I went to a Guitar Center right when they opened one weekend for the very reason that i hate being in there with all the shredding. The Mustang III sounded great, and had none of the fizz that my amp had.


baerashbrewer wrote:
Reviews have been submitted on Musicians Friend and Sweetwater acknowledging the issue
Strangely all reviews have been removed from Musicians Friend
That's crazy. There are 0 reviews for the Mustang III now. I thought there were a few before. Am i wrong?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:38 pm
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polishbroadcast wrote:
baerashbrewer wrote:
How does everyone feel about this? If the problem can't be fixed soon, should Fender replace it with a new amp that has been tested?
I think all the amps are the same. Part of the joy/pain of PCB's is they are so consistent. Obviously if you have a problem, it will be in a date range for a component set, like when they do recalls for certain serial numbers. Since the dates and people who do and don't have an issue don't line up at all, my feeling is that all the amps are the same, the big variable is where they are being used.

People have reported (i've experienced this as well) that the amp is fine at the store, and not at home. If the amp is fine for you at both places, then you are fortunate, but you may play some club down the road, or be at a rehearsal space, and hear the noise. I don't really think there are good or bad batch.

So to answer the original question, i don't think a "good tested" amp would make any difference to the people having issues. It has to be a component swap or firmware update. Unless you mean another Fender amp, then i'll take a SuperSonic or Deluxe Reverb please. :D


But still, Mustangs I and II don't have the problem. I also tried a III and a II at the same store, the III made the noise, the II did not, and were plugged into the same outlet and surge protector. There is something that is either making this happen, or allowing it to happen, and from what I think is not the digital modeling, but either the two variants, the LCD or Firmware.

I would also assume that the majority of the consumers that bought this amp don't have an optimum power source. This makes me feel like more people would be experiencing the same problem if they were all the same.

Still, I feel like the dialogue is important, and Fender should vocalize itself on the issue.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:40 pm
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polishbroadcast wrote:

baerashbrewer wrote:
Reviews have been submitted on Musicians Friend and Sweetwater acknowledging the issue
Strangely all reviews have been removed from Musicians Friend
That's crazy. There are 0 reviews for the Mustang III now. I thought there were a few before. Am i wrong?


There were over a hundred.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:25 pm
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baerashbrewer wrote:
But still, Mustangs I and II don't have the problem. I also tried a III and a II at the same store, the III made the noise, the II did not, and were plugged into the same outlet and surge protector. There is something that is either making this happen, or allowing it to happen, and from what I think is not the digital modeling, but either the two variants, the LCD or Firmware.
I think that lines up with Henkys theory about the LCD. If there is more draw on the system, or noise introduced through external factors like bad power or the LCD, then when the system is underpowered it shows up as digital distortion / noise. This also explains why there is no noise on the headphones or USB since those don't have to drive the power amp. So who volunteers to temporarily disconnect the LCD? :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:04 pm
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Mustang series has a lot to offer and I hope Fender fixes this. I just recently changed my mind about buying the Cube 40XL in favor of the Mustang III, but if the problem persists, I'll stick with the Roland.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:33 pm
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They've been posting pretty consistently since the last update which was a while ago. Haven't seen anything from a Fender person lately at all. Maybe they know it's something they can't fix by now? Seems strange to see so much interaction on Fenders part then just dries up suddenly.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:10 pm
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Quote:
polishbroadcast wrote:
I think that lines up with Henkys theory about the LCD. If there is more draw on the system, or noise introduced through external factors like bad power or the LCD, then when the system is underpowered it shows up as digital distortion / noise. This also explains why there is no noise on the headphones or USB since those don't have to drive the power amp. So who volunteers to temporarily disconnect the LCD? :mrgreen:
[/quote]

Well, the one last variable between the I & II and the II, IV & V is that while the first two are on Firmware 1.7, the others are still on 1.6

Let's hope that this is the reason. Although, I doubt it, I am hoping. And if it is the LCD, I like the idea the one poster had to just have a 5 second timeout on the LCD.


Last edited by baerashbrewer on Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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