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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:44 pm
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I'm also experiencing the strange fizz sound with my Mustang III. The sound clip posted by polishbroadcast is exactly the type of thing I'm hearing. It's most noticeable when letting notes ring out while using a clean setting. The fizz is much less noticeable at lower volumes and when using some dirt, but it's still there if you listen closely enough. As per other reports, this only happens when using the built in speaker. When using headphones or FX send into monitors, I haven't been able to notice the fizz on any volume or setting.

I have tried plugging into different outlets, with and without a power bar, etc at home, but it made no difference. I've also tried at other locations, but the fizz is still there. I had the opportunity to plug in using a pro grade UPS though, and as far as I could tell, that did eliminate the fizz. That UPS costs 3 or 4 times more than the Mustang III though, so it doesn't seem like an appropriate solution. Perhaps a lower grade UPS or power conditioner with automatic voltage regulation, pure sine wave output, noise filtering, etc might also do the trick, but even those are approaching the cost of a Mustang III.

Apart from this issue, I love my Mustang III, so I'll wait a bit to see if Fender provides a solution. I hope they come up with something, because I'd prefer to have it fixed rather than move on to a different product.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:35 am
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If MusicalCircuitry's findings are consistent with others, that means it IS a power quality issue and a GOOD surge protector WITH RF noise reduction should solve this for many people. RadioShack has a surge protector (61-188) for about $35 that give 30dB of noise reduction. I would think this would be a workable solution for most people and good protection in any case! FWIW :)

Bob


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:04 am
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bclarke675 wrote:
If MusicalCircuitry's findings are consistent with others, that means it IS a power quality issue and a GOOD surge protector WITH RF noise reduction should solve this for many people. RadioShack has a surge protector (61-188) for about $35 that give 30dB of noise reduction. I would think this would be a workable solution for most people and good protection in any case! FWIW :)

Bob


I dunno, I have tried with surge protectors, surge suppressors, a UPS, and power conditioner. None of them not only got rid of the fuzz, BUT they didn't even change the quality, volume, or effect of it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:10 am
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Okay then. There's something else at play. I hadn't heard that anyone had tried that many types of solutions. Sorry if I missed it in one of your previous posts.

Back to Fender for a solution!

I own a G-DEC 3 Thirty and don't have these issues, but am considering a Mustang III to replace my Carvin XV112, which is 20 years old. Never loved the Carvin the way I did my old Silverface Twin Reverb. The other possibility is an Egnater Tweaker. Just not sure I want the expense & upkeep of another tube amp.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:04 am
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I only have a few theories left. Could it be a batch of bad Op Amps in the A/D circuit similar to that bad preamp tube someone else mentioned in an earlier post? Could it be bad transistors in the power amp module? Bad solder joints somewhere in the signal path - like in the ribbon cable connecting the modeling preamp to the power amp?

I don't envy the techs at Fender dealing with this issue.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:52 pm
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baerashbrewer wrote:
I dunno, I have tried with surge protectors, surge suppressors, a UPS, and power conditioner. None of them not only got rid of the fuzz, BUT they didn't even change the quality, volume, or effect of it.


Do you know whether the power conditioner you used had automatic voltage regulation (AVR), and whether the UPS had AVR and pure sine wave output? At home, I tried both a run of the mill surge protector and one of the fancier ones with noise filtering for home theater systems, and neither made a difference. I think the AVR and other features found on higher end UPS units may have been the difference.

Unfortunately UPS units with those features (for example, the non entry level Smart-UPS line from APC) start around $200-300. Furman power conditioners are popular for music applications, but they don't offer voltage regulation until you get into something like the Furman AR-1215, which costs over $500. Even if one of these products could work as a solution for everyone though, it seems inappropriate that we'd need to spend $200-300 (or more) to get a $300 amp working.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm
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Agreed. It should work with normal surge protection/filtering, and most of the time, with no filtering at all. :roll:

Really making me think before seriously looking at these amps. :!:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:13 pm
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MusicalCircuitry wrote:
baerashbrewer wrote:
I dunno, I have tried with surge protectors, surge suppressors, a UPS, and power conditioner. None of them not only got rid of the fuzz, BUT they didn't even change the quality, volume, or effect of it.


Do you know whether the power conditioner you used had automatic voltage regulation (AVR), and whether the UPS had AVR and pure sine wave output? At home, I tried both a run of the mill surge protector and one of the fancier ones with noise filtering for home theater systems, and neither made a difference. I think the AVR and other features found on higher end UPS units may have been the difference.

Unfortunately UPS units with those features (for example, the non entry level Smart-UPS line from APC) start around $200-300. Furman power conditioners are popular for music applications, but they don't offer voltage regulation until you get into something like the Furman AR-1215, which costs over $500. Even if one of these products could work as a solution for everyone though, it seems inappropriate that we'd need to spend $200-300 (or more) to get a $300 amp working.


Unfortunately, I don't know. I used a Monster power conditioner at a club, where I am friends with the sound guy (also I use this amp as a backup, in case one of your tube amps is having problems, as a practice amp, and as a rehearsal amp). It was a pretty top of the line model with one side for normal equipment and one side for heavy equipment. For the UPS unit, I used a high quality APC unit that I used to use for my computer, etc.

And, yes. If these amps are competing with other amps, then they need to be able to survive on the same power conditions all other amps can.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:43 pm
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Any amp that needs a power conditioner in order to operate under normal usage should have the conditioner built in.

My money is on a batch of sub spec components.

I use an APC for my home theater but that's not to get the components to work at a minimal performance level; it's to protect the equipment from surges or brownouts and ensure that the projector bulb is insulated from power level inconsistencies.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:46 pm
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I tried my Mustang III with a UPS and it didn't do anything. I am still in the "dirty power' camp though.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:17 pm
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bclarke675 wrote:
Agreed. It should work with normal surge protection/filtering, and most of the time, with no filtering at all. :roll:

Really making me think before seriously looking at these amps. :!:



For what it's worth, I love my Mustang II.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:54 pm
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It could also be your speaker or cabinet resonance causing the fizz sound that you hear,i have the mustang I and V and have no fizz sound problems with these amps but i also have the peavey vypyr 15 and 30w amps and i had cabinet resonance and vibration problems with these amps,i had to take these amps apart and add foam weather stripping around the metal amp chassis and a lot of the vibration i was getting was from the speaker grill(it made the type of fizz sound like what you hear from your mustang),i had to put pieces of felt under the speaker grill to solve the problem. the speaker in your mustang could also be faulty,if you ever open up your amp maybe you can try out another speaker and see if you still have the fizz sound problem,also check that the screws holding down your speaker are tight and not loose,this could also cause the resonance or fizz sound that you hear.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:31 pm
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I don't think this is cabinet buzz, Metalman. I heard the fizz they speak of in the MI prior to the firmware update.

O.


Last edited by Orcatraz on Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:53 pm
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I wanted to replicate my results using a UPS to eliminate the fizz, but haven't been able to do so. I've tried the original UPS I was using as well as a different model, and the fizz was present with both. There must be some other variable at work that we're not aware of. Something has to account for why some amps always have the fizz, some don't have it at all, and some have it only under certain conditions. I'd rather be playing my guitar than worrying about this though, so I'm going to get back to that and wait for news from Fender. Hopefully they have something for us soon!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:54 am
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Metalman50 wrote:
It could also be your speaker or cabinet resonance causing the fizz sound that you hear,i have the mustang I and V and have no fizz sound problem


A couple of us on this thread have attached a different speaker cab to the amp and experienved the same noise.


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