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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:10 am
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See UPDATE below first:

...the headphone/line-out is now malfunctioning on my V head. When I plugged in the 1/8" plug, the volume is inexplicably low for the settings. When I pulled out the 1/8" plug a bit, the sound became somewhat normal. I tried two different plugs, same thing.

Ironically, last night, I figured out which hair-ball cord configuration sounds best. Tonight, I innocently plugged in hoping last night's sound would be duplicated and...poof, wut the?

Check 'ur 1/8" headphone plugs folks! Anybody else having this issue too???

UPDATE!!!: Ableton lost the left channel? After fiddling around with cords for a bit, I decided to close Ableton and take a break. ...then, it hit me, try reaper -- it works. ...I looked all around Ableton and can't find the issue.

I've had this issue with Ableton a few times; saved settings, reopened program, something's changed. This is getting nutz! No more Ableton.

...if you ever loose a channel on Ableton, ...try another program before fiddling with the cords (fyi, it's the second thing I checked before fiddling with cords a few more times).


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:53 am
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oh FFS one of you guys needs to post a video of a PHRACKING SONG on a clean setting. Start a new poll - can you hear the fizz?

Either I hear fizz on a song or you're just a bunch of babies.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:13 pm
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emcron wrote:
Either I hear fizz on a song or you're just a bunch of babies.


@emcron

-1

If what you read here upsets you that much ... then why not read something else.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:42 pm
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It's a love/hate relationship. It sounded good this afternoon through reaper. I looked at Ableton and discovered which number got changed, changed it back and got stereo back...Ableton is weird.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:03 pm
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KenB5 wrote:
emcron wrote:
Either I hear fizz on a song or you're just a bunch of babies.


@emcron

-1

If what you read here upsets you that much ... then why not read something else.

KenB

So, no recording from you then?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:08 pm
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@emcron

Go to page 1 of this thread. Tell me you don't hear the fizz. Mine was just like that.

Anyway, this thread is no longer even about the presence or obnoxiousness of the fizz, as Fender has de facto admitted both.

The thread is, IMHO, about how Fender is treating those of us for whom the amps defects present a major problem.

@Fender
Just give us our money back, like the 5-year warranty hang tag promises, or at least, if you insist on publicly holding that the amps are within spec, offer us the equivalent retail value in other Fender products of our choice.

It's only good business. Why piss off us jazz, country, steel and other clean Fender tone fans like this? We teach. We help kids shop for amps. We play in bands. People listen to us. Don't you value your reputation?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:42 pm
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emcron wrote:
KenB5 wrote:
emcron wrote:
Either I hear fizz on a song or you're just a bunch of babies.


@emcron

-1

If what you read here upsets you that much ... then why not read something else.

KenB

So, no recording from you then?


And the point of posting a recording would be ... what? To satisfy you? Dream on pal ...

If you don't believe in fizz ... or won't take the word of others who say THEY are dissatisfied with the amp for THEIR use ... both of which seem evident by your "bunch of babies" comment ... then I ain't gonna try to change your mind ... and I could care less about your opinion.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:54 am
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DArmstrong55 wrote:

The thread is, IMHO, about how Fender is treating those of us for whom the amps defects present a major problem.


This is absolutely right.

What I've always wanted is a solid state, light-weight, low cost, one-speaker "Twin." Instant-on, pristine clean Twin tone at both practice and gig volumes, no temperamental tubes, built-in Fender reverb and tremolo. I've already got drawers full of EL84's, 12AX7's, 12AT7's, etc. I don't need another tube amp.

I was snookered by Fender into buying the MIII under the pretense that the maker of the world's greatest clean amp had produced exactly what I'd been looking for. Instead, what they delivered was a "reasonable facsimile" of a guitar amp.

I'm in a low-tech vocal duo, and my guitar is the only instrument in 90% of our songs. We don't have drums and bass or other equipment to mask the fizz. When we do a quiet song like "Blue Bayou" where the first verse is me playing the opening bass notes on my six-string while my female partner sings, the fizz is loud and clear.

Some say that all modeling amps contain digital artifacts to a certain degree. To that I say, where is the asterisk in Fender's advertisements leading to a statement that reads "may contain digital artifacts"? To this very day, Fender makes no mention of digital artifacts in any of their Mustang literature. And no, allowing a thread like this to exist on their Internet forum does not constitute adequate public disclosure.

Am I a "discerning listener?" Yes, and I'm proud to be one. I've worked long and hard at my music, and demand professionalism from myself, my partners, and my equipment. After six weeks of owning the MIII, this amp suddenly dropped the ball.

I took my amp to a Fender authorized warranty repair center, and after a week they called me and said Fender knew of the problem but had no solution.

Fender has produced a product with an unintended glitch and should do the honest thing by offering dissatisfied customers a full refund. Instead, they've taken the position that the fizz is not a big deal. Oh really? Bait and switch is not a big deal? False advertising is not a big deal? Grabbing my money and then stonewalling and abandoning me is not a big deal?

I beg to differ.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:20 am
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You should stop typing so many words and start recording a song with detectable fizz. Cmon you jazz guys, play and post a jazz song, I want to hear the fizz.

Of course, I'm sounding a little saracastic because I'm trying to prove a point. Don't get all butthurt about it.

If nobody can produce a recording with detectable fizz I'm with Fender on this one - it's no big deal. Not a long drawn out note on a specific fret on a new moon, just a normal song man. We all know what a song is.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:14 am
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emcron wrote:
Not a long drawn out note on a specific fret on a new moon, just a normal song man. We all know what a song is.


if you want play like Santana with long sustained notes even overdriven sounds would be unaccettable! also those are songs to play! and he often uses sustained notes even in lower strings..
in my case after the replacement i can't detect a real problem on clean sounds anymore but when you overdrive (with stompbox included or from external pedalboard) the amp sounds over a middle level you can hear a phasing-like sound so the note modulate ..

i know that with the old transistor amp Laney (+ roland VG88) i didn't have such problem.. i could keep a sustained note without give any unwanted modulation or effect... i mean keeping the finger still.. like Santana.
and that is..

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:45 am
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You guys don't have a case if you can't demonstrate the amp is defective with normal playing technique and a normal song with a normal listener. Sorry. I'll move along. Good luck.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:49 am
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emcron wrote:
You guys don't have a case if you can't demonstrate the amp is defective with normal playing technique and a normal song with a normal listener. Sorry. I'll move along. Good luck.

:D
Please, don't leave me alone. :wink:

_________________
MUSTANG III


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:28 pm
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emcron wrote:
You guys don't have a case if you can't demonstrate the amp is defective with normal playing technique and a normal song with a normal listener. Sorry. I'll move along. Good luck.


@emcron

I get it ... you want to be King ... the sole voice who passes judgment of whether the opinions of Mustang owners are valid or not.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:43 pm
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KenB5 wrote:
emcron wrote:
You guys don't have a case if you can't demonstrate the amp is defective with normal playing technique and a normal song with a normal listener. Sorry. I'll move along. Good luck.


@emcron

I get it ... you want to be King ... the sole voice who passes judgment of whether the opinions of Mustang owners are valid or not.

KenB

No, no, no. The point is...

I can produce fizz that sounds exactly like the samples posted on page 1. I can also dial in a Santana tone on my amp and I can play a Santana song. And guess what? Any traces of fizz that might be detectable are so insignificant that I or my audience would never hear it. That's MY amp.... BUT.... The evidence seems to point to that its the same for the majority of everybody else's amps too. The evidence seems to show that fizz is hyped up and over exaggerated. Don't get hurt about your opinion getting invalidated... Validate it. Prove us wrong.


cormorant wrote:
What I've always wanted is a solid state, light-weight, low cost, one-speaker "Twin." Instant-on, pristine clean Twin tone at both practice and gig volumes, no temperamental tubes, built-in Fender reverb and tremolo. I've already got drawers full of EL84's, 12AX7's, 12AT7's, etc. I don't need another tube amp.

I was snookered by Fender into buying the MIII under the pretense that the maker of the world's greatest clean amp had produced exactly what I'd been looking for. Instead, what they delivered was a "reasonable facsimile" of a guitar amp.

I'm in a low-tech vocal duo, and my guitar is the only instrument in 90% of our songs. We don't have drums and bass or other equipment to mask the fizz. When we do a quiet song like "Blue Bayou" where the first verse is me playing the opening bass notes on my six-string while my female partner sings, the fizz is loud and clear.

Well I distinctly remember the tag line "high speed, amped up, and loud". Hardley gives one images of pristine clean low tech vocal duo accompaniment or whatever. It sucks you couldn't use it for what you wanted, but I really don't believe that Fender had players like you in mind when they did the R&D on the Mustangs.

It is a MODELING amp. It's purpose is to give you a low cost, versatile amp with a variety of tones that are a "facsimile" (a digital likeness) of real amps & effects. And to that end, it delivers and then some.

DArmstrong55 wrote:
You say "Fender advertised Sparkling Clean tone and delivered fizzy tone" is "Opinion & Generalization". You say "The fizz is a manufacturers defect" is "Unsubstantiated grey area". Well the nice guy from Fender said Mustang IIIs fizz and wouldn't be suitable for clean jazz. He said it's the output transformer, and I could try installing a different one with the same specs. I'd say that makes it "fact", and completely substantiated.

Please, if you don't know what a non-defective guitar amp sounds like clean, or don't care that much about those same clean tones that Leo Fender year by year optimized his amps for, just STFU and let those of us who do know and care get on with trying to embarrass Fender into doing the right thing.

All due respect to whatever tech rep you spoke to but he is not the voice of Fender, he is not an engineer, nor the amp designer. He is paid to kiss your $@! and try to help you the best he can.

But, Ok, I'll take your kind advise and wish you good luck. Just one more thing, if you want to know why your tactics are not working, its because you don't have an F'ing leg to stand on. Good day sir!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:54 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
It sucks you couldn't use it for what you wanted, but I really don't believe that Fender had players like you in mind when they did the R&D on the Mustangs.Just one more thing, if you want to know why your tactics are not working, its because you don't have an F'ing leg to stand on. Good day sir!


I'm pretty sure you don't really know what Fender hand in mind with their R&D. I do know that I reviewed several fender co-op ads on Youtube that included sections touting clean jazz tones and versatility. So I don't know what their engineers had in mind, but I can see what their marketing wonks had in mind. If the line is not suitable for Jazz and clean acoustic (and a Fender rep stated that to me as well), then they shouldn't market it as such and should with withdraw all those vids on youtube including the clean sounds and clear pitch to jazz.

You persist in missing the main point. If they actually all fizzed and you could review it at point of purchase, no one would have a complaint. But the problem is, this issue often develops after some period of ownership. It's like you buy a car, it drives fine, and then a couple of months down the road, it develops a shimmy. You can still drive the car, but it's not as much fun. And then when you take it to the dealer, they say shimmy is part of the design specification (what a Fender rep told me), and they won't do anything about it. And fanboys of that car, who only drive on washboard roads say, gee, I can't notice the shimmy.

I really don't care if you can't hear it. Maybe you like to drive a car that shimmys, or maybe you only drive on bumpy washboard roads where the shimmy doesn't really matter.

I don't suppose you actually think you are helping Fender out here, do you? Yes, I suspect you do. With friends like you, Fender hardly needs enemies! Carry on, by all means. Wow.


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