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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:26 pm
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And besides, (except that I've not paid any attention to this thread since around page 15) this is the most active thread on the board and it keeps certain people comming back. LOL If everything was perfect, there'd be no reason to post on this forum. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:03 pm
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8beggars wrote:
Hey Ken B.

So your solution is ?????????????????????? what ????????????

Keep coming on this forum and complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and shooting down other peoples attempts to help find a solution. That'll really solve the problem.

You offer no sensible comments on what the masses that are affected with this problem should attempt to do, to bring Fender to the table to discuss and resolve this.

While I am not particularly affected badly, at least I am trying to offer some alternatives to help get this resolved.

Seems to me, that some individuals on this forum, just want to perpetuate useless debate that is going nowhere. How long has this thread been going and how many posts to it and with absolutely NO RESULT other than people levelling smart arse comments at one another rather than working together for the greater good and pursuing another course of action to bring Fender to bare.

8beggars


@8beggars

You should read a little closer ... if you did ... you'd see my responses are solely directed at individuals that post in a way that acts to discount the opinions of owners of fizzy Mustangs by means of statements such as ... it's a cheap amp, whadaya expect ... or ... it can't be that bad ... or you're too discerning ... or show me an example of where fizz makes the amp unusable etc. I particularly object to the "discerning" theory offered up by Fender and others because that blames the fizz problem on the owner rather than the manufacturer ... and the fact is ... music is about discernment ... aka listening ... so it's a bogus statement to begin with. If we didn't listen with a critical ear we'd never improve and we'd never know what sounds we liked or what equipment or techniques were necessary to achieve it. We'd never know the sound of a humbucker from a single coil, or a hot biased tube vs a cold biased one ... and companies like Fender would not be able to do what they do. That's what I object to here ... the minimization of owners of fizzy amps and what they have to say ... if it weren't for that I'd say nothing at all here.

Solution to fizz ... I have none ... you don't either ... and evidently neither does anyone else save for Fender ... and they ain't talkin'. How do we get Fender to take responsibility for the fizz problem rather than blame it on discerning owners etc as per their official response ... beats me. When I had a problem I contacted them directly. Other people have done the same or contacted their dealer or warranty center and were not. IMO Fender has to have the initiative to take responsibility to make whole unsatisfied owners of fizzy Mustangs ... but I have zero confidence Fender will ever do that ... and I don't think we can coerce them to do so by such things as "taking their complaint to the media, current affairs programs etc. as you have suggested. But hey ... more power to ya if ya wanna try.

As to my reaction to other peoples solutions ... again you're reading comprehension is lacking ... in no response on this board in the last year have I discounted anyone's attempt to find a solution to the fizz problem ... other than to say that there have been a lot of theories and a lot of here-say that has yet to be proven by Mustang owners and has not been commented on by Fender. Nor have I made any comments regarding efforts to take it up with Fender or anyone else.

Bottom line ... when people stop blaming fizz or the perception of fizz on Mustang owners and stop discounting their opinions ... you'll stop hearing from me.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:04 pm
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If Fender refuses to acknowledge the problem, complaining on the internet is probably the only thing left you can do. I do believe that if enough people post bad reviews it could seriously hurt Mustang sales (at least III & up). What's posted on the internet sticks for a very long time and company's are afraid to have their good name tarnished.

Question is.. are there enough people that have a very bad fizzing amp that are willing to post and complain about it? If my amp fizzed really bad, I would probably be the first to stand in the picket line, but... (lucky for me I guess) that is not the case.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:20 am
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willmodelisme wrote:
bborzell wrote:
…. The reality is that some of these things fizz and some don't….

I still don’t know about what fizz you are talking about. If it is the really bad one that was recorded in the audio clip, I would say OK with you.
But, IMO, most of reported FIZZ amp are not as bad as in the audio clip.
IMO, the majority of the Fizz amp that was reported are only a problem for the “discerning listeners” , which is also Fender’s opinion …
bborzell wrote:
…Democracy has little to do with the fact that this is a real issue...

You speak about democracy, ..I didn’t.
bborzell wrote:
… No amount of trolling for votes for the "no fizz" crowd will negate the fact that there is a fairly high probability that anyone who has bought a III/IV/V Mustang has an amp that produces a sound artefact that was not a part of the original performance spec. Fender has confirmed as much. ...

Go back in the thread and read again Fender announcement, I think you did not understand it very well.


The bad one.

You spoke about establishing balance in the discussion. I interpreted that as trolling for positive Mustang III votes to "balance" the comments on the issue. My point is that no amount of drum beating will obviate the fact that many of these amps produce noise that is unwanted by players and by Fender technicians.

As for your thought that I did not understand the Fender announcement, I read it with the benefit of three discussions with Fender tech folks. I know exactly what Fender are saying and what they want you to believe. Sounds like they have been successful with you.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:33 am
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Scorpaeon wrote:
KenB5 wrote:
bborzell wrote:
I don't believe that "balance" has anything to do with this matter. The reality is that some of these things fizz and some don't. Some have speculated that the most likely reason for this variability is low quality electronic components; some work and others don't. That translates to poor quality control.

Democracy has little to do with the fact that this is a real issue. This should not be a case where people take sides or vote and somehow try to balance out their particular point of view. No amount of trolling for votes for the "no fizz" crowd will negate the fact that there is a fairly high probability that anyone who has bought a III/IV/V Mustang has an amp that produces a sound artifact that was not a part of the original performance spec. Fender has confirmed as much.

If you or anyone else is OK with that taking the risk of getting an amp that either fizzes out of the box, develops the fizz later, or hopefully is lucky enough to have scored a fizz free amp, then go for it. But trying to justify your willingness to live with either the fizz or the risk of having it develop later on on the basis of "balance" seems to miss the entire point.


+1

KenB

bborzell wrote:
Interesting that there are still folks defending these amps when a call to Fender tech support is likely to result it a discussion with a decent tech guy who obviously feels bad about the unwanted sonic artifact. Prior to the "announcement" from Fender, pretty much all my discussions with tech support involved clear recognition on their part of an unplanned for noise that is not particularly musical.

If some people are OK with getting noise that was not designed into the amp, that's OK with me, but I don't buy amps that add noise to my playing.

You refuse to accept any compromise on principle. I can respect that. In fact I agree with you in principle. I don't defend Fender's action/inaction so much as I defend the amp its self.

Here's why I feel compelled to defend the amp.

1. The Mustangs are great amps for many reasons. (As opposed to a bad amp for one reason.)

2. There are very, very, very few tangible examples of how the fizz has rendered the Mustang unusable.

Good luck to you guys trying to find a better all around amp for a better value. We'll see what comes out of NAMM.


There is only one reason why I view the III and above Mustangs as unusable. I play a Hollowbody single P90 guitar that I use for jazz tunes. I look for clean reproduction without added fizz, buzz, rattling or anything else that wasn't a result of my pick attack, how cleanly I fret, or my guitar setup.

I also have a couple of semi hollow bodies for blues and the occasional loud stuff and then there is the Danelectro. Any of those guitars would probably do well with a fizzing Mustang because I would likely have a fair amount of loud stuff going on with them that would overpower the fizz. But that is not sufficient reason for me to own an amp that introduces unplanned, undesigned and generally unwanted noise.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:22 am
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bborzell wrote:

You spoke about establishing balance in the discussion. I INTERPRETED that as..

We agree...

bborzell wrote:
MY POINT is that no amount of drum beating will obviate the fact that many of these amps produce noise that is unwanted by players and by Fender technicians.


That is YOUR point. I am happy to read that you admit it. I respect it but I disagree.


bborzell wrote:
As for your thought that I did not understand the Fender announcement, I read it with the benefit of three discussions with Fender tech folks. I know exactly what Fender are saying and what they want you to believe. Sounds like they have been successful with you.


As i didn't hear those discussions, i can only take into consideration Fenders official announcement. Their conclusion was not the same.

To paraphrase somebody that i don't want to mention in respect for him, i would say: "the people who read these forums represent a small percentage of the international target audience. Those of us who participate here would like to think that we represent the universe, but I'm afraid that we are simply a rather small population"...

This was taken out of its context, i admit, but i fully agree with the sentence itself.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:22 am
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My solution is simple. If Fender can't replace a fizzing amp with a non-fizzing amp of the same model under their 5 year warranty, then on request they should facilitate a full refund including shipping charges for people affected outside of or not covered by a dealer return period.


8beggars wrote:
Hey Ken B.

So your solution is ?????????????????????? what ????????????

8beggars


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:07 am
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willmodelisme wrote:
bborzell wrote:

You spoke about establishing balance in the discussion. I INTERPRETED that as..

We agree...

bborzell wrote:
MY POINT is that no amount of drum beating will obviate the fact that many of these amps produce noise that is unwanted by players and by Fender technicians.


That is YOUR point. I am happy to read that you admit it. I respect it but I disagree.


bborzell wrote:
As for your thought that I did not understand the Fender announcement, I read it with the benefit of three discussions with Fender tech folks. I know exactly what Fender are saying and what they want you to believe. Sounds like they have been successful with you.


As i didn't hear those discussions, i can only take into consideration Fenders official announcement. Their conclusion was not the same.

To paraphrase somebody that i don't want to mention in respect for him, i would say: "the people who read these forums represent a small percentage of the international target audience. Those of us who participate here would like to think that we represent the universe, but I'm afraid that we are simply a rather small population"...

This was taken out of its context, i admit, but i fully agree with the sentence itself.


It is easy to dismiss concerns about product deficiencies described on the Internet by dragging out the, "the complainers are but a small part of the entire universe and their complaints are therefore not representative of the performance of the product" line. Manufacturers do it all the time and people who seek to defend their purchase often follow suit.

But, let's be clear on one thing; the official statement from Fender;


"Dear Fender Mustang Community,

We are aware of the various discussions regarding the “fizz” phenomenon, in which some Mustang amp users notice sound that they find undesirable. We researched the issue and found that under certain combined conditions, using certain settings and playing techniques, an artifact can be produced in Mustang III, IV and V amplifiers.

The simple truth is that while we were able to include great tones and many useful features into an extremely affordable box, within the vast array of sounds, some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation. Nevertheless, legions of Mustang amp users have proven and agree that the Mustang amplifier series delivers great value, versatility and sound.

As a forward-thinking company of musicians, we always welcome all consumer opinion and insight that helps drive our constant development of innovative new products. Technology moves fast, and so we continue to develop products that offer guitarists newer and better tools to make music.

Best Regards,
The Fender Tech Support Lab"

makes two points very clearly that are at odds with the, "these complaints are not representative of the universe" defense.

One, they admit that the noise can affect all III/IV/V amps. To say otherwise would admit quality control production issues or changes among the production runs and they have not referenced any product changes since the amps came out. Indeed, most recently manufactured amps are among those reported as fizzers. In short, they clearly admit the presence of the artifact.

Two, they combine the low cost of the amp (stated) with their knowledge that many, if not most, Mustang owners will never hear the fizz because they simply will not be playing much clean and clear music (implied and supported by comments in this thread and in others) to point the essence of the problem as being due to "discerning listeners". The fact that the noise might be acceptable to many Mustang owners does not mean that it does not exist as an artifact that was not a part of the original design specification. Amp designers simply do not seek to build in extra noise.

It appears that Fender is stating that someone who is a discerning listener need not line up in the legions of Mustang owners who are apparently, according to Fender, not discerning listeners. Perhaps discerning listeners should focus on Fender's more expensive offerings to satisfy their discerning needs.

The "announcement" was written by folks who wanted to shut down a potential stake to the heart of the success of the Mustang amp line. To admit the presence of noise only to attribute it to discerning listening is ample evidence of that point.

To repeat my previous statement, I think I understand fully where Fender is coming from on this issue.

In closing, if this amp works for you, I think that is great. What I don't understand is why you feel disposed to take issue with the dissatisfaction of "discerning" listeners. I own six amps ranging in price from $99 to $1,500. Three are electric, two are acoustic and one is a dedicated bass amp. None of them produce unwanted or unplanned for noise artifacts no matter how I play through them. The Mustang III that I was ready to pay for and walk out of the store with that day with no small degree of excitement did something that none of my other amps have done over a span of 40 years (that's how long I have owned my Polytone amp); it fizzed.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:00 pm
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@bborzell, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth but I don't think anyone has an issue with anyone who is dissatisfied with the amp.

What I personally take issue with is when people purport opinions, generalizations, and isolated incidents as hard evidence to lead us to believe something that is unsubstantiated. We all know the fizz is exists, that's not what I'm talking about. I just think it's over reaching a little to imply something sinister behind Fender's motives. When you detach yourself emotionally and look at the evidence we do have, the fizz issue seems like it's been exaggerated.

As for the "discerning listener"....

Yeah, I get that it’s a Fender amp and Fender has a reputation for "sparkling cleans", but to compare the DSP modeling of ANY amp to the real thing you're going to have to expect some amount of "discernment" to take place. As KenB5 pointed out a few posts back, we all do it to some degree. I'm not faulting you or anyone else for being "too discerning" or even trying to imply that it's a bad thing. I think everyone should discern for themselves and make up their own mind about the amp.

It just bugs me when people make authoritative statements (not singling anyone out, but in general) like, "the amp is defective" or "the amp is unusable" when they really have very little to back it up. Because when you look at the evidence, the Mustang III, IV and V is very clearly building a good following among casual users as well as giggers.

I'm curious, any of you guys who feel you got burned with your Mustang, did you considered the Vypyrs, Spiders, VT's, or Cubes before you decided to go with the Mustang? Because all of those amps are marketed to the same basic demographic, and they all have various "Fender Clean" amp models (whether they call them that or not), and they all advertise that their technology and tone sounds like the "real" amps, and they all fall short in some regards and excel in others, and some (if not all) of them have digital artifacts. Is there any difference in what you'd expect from them and what you got from the Mustang?

So where do you draw the line, when do you take a stand? (Rhetorical) I've got a Fender Strat that makes a humming noise. I don't want the noise, I don't desire the noise, I don't think that noise was purposely designed to be there. It can be down right annoying depending on the amp/guitar settings I'm using. I've read something about this hum on the internets but nowhere in Fender's official description of the guitar does it say anything about the hum. I think those bastards sold me a defective guitar. I'm being a little facetious to make a point but I don't think it's that far off.

And if anyone thinks I'm just trying to devalue their opinion. Sorry, I mean no mal intent. Of course I do want to add value to my own opinion (as does anyone). But opinion does not negate opinion. Only fact negates opinion.

kidrock wrote:
If Fender refuses to acknowledge the problem, complaining on the internet is probably the only thing left you can do. I do believe that if enough people post bad reviews it could seriously hurt Mustang sales (at least III & up). What's posted on the internet sticks for a very long time and company's are afraid to have their good name tarnished.

Question is.. are there enough people that have a very bad fizzing amp that are willing to post and complain about it? If my amp fizzed really bad, I would probably be the first to stand in the picket line, but... (lucky for me I guess) that is not the case.

You know, that's an interesting observation. I just did a quick check around and every site I go to has the Mustang III listed as a "best seller" with an average 4.5 star review.

I respect everyone's opinion. All I want people to know, those people coming in here to get the scoop on the fizz, is that if you take a step back and look at it from a completely objective point of view and you examine all the known facts, It's not a far stretch to determine that Fender's official statement on the matter is a fair enough statement. Yes there's a chance you won't like the amp because of fizz or any number of other things. Just like any other piece of gear. Don't be scared off by a couple of sound bites. Decide what you want to get out of the amp, compare it to the alternatives, and make up your own mind. That's all I want to say.

Please carry on with the "whinging".
:)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:29 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
I'm curious, any of you guys who feel you got burned with your Mustang, did you considered the Vypyrs, Spiders, VT's, or Cubes before you decided to go with the Mustang?...
So where do you draw the line, when do you take a stand? (Rhetorical) ... Yes there's a chance you won't like the amp because of fizz or any number of other things. Just like any other piece of gear. Don't be scared off by a couple of sound bites. Decide what you want to get out of the amp, compare it to the alternatives, and make up your own mind. That's all I want to say.

Please carry on with the "whinging".
:)

Yes, considered others. Got the Mustang and it didn't fizz. Compared it, listened to it, and decided to keep it. Six weeks later, it started to fizz. My only mistake, apparently, was actually believing that Fender would back up their warranty for a clear defect that was not present during the selection process. What I wanted to get out of it was what it sounded like when I got it at the price I paid for it. This is really simple. It doesn't matter if only one in a thousand are hit by the fizz. If people buy it based on its sound at time of purchase, and it later degenerates horribly, then Fender either needs to provide a non-fizzing replacement or facilitate a full refund. That's what a warranty is for. As for your humming strat, If I had a strat that didn't hum when I bought it and started humming later, I would expect Fender to fix it or replace it on warranty as well. That's pretty simple. Why won't they do the same with an amp that starts making an unwanted sound after initial purchase?

We're not complaining about the amp. We're complaining about Fender. If Fender would honor their warranty, either with replacement or refund, no one would be whining.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:51 pm
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Scorpaeon,you said: I'm curious, any of you guys who feel you got burned with your Mustang, did you considered the Vypyrs, Spiders, VT's, or Cubes before you decided to go with the Mustang?

I have the mustang I and V and i do not feel i got burned yet with my MV,i do not have the fizz problem but i know it may be only a matter of time before it may happen and can understand how angry and unsatisfied everyone feels about this problem if you have it.

I also have the peavey vypyr 15 and 30 i bought a few years ago and my first vypyr 15 was noisy and i returned it for another one that was good,i also went through three vypyr 30's before i got one that was pretty good,the first and second vypyr 30's had a bad hum and other noise problems,i still have a little hum but it is not too bad and i also have the lockup problem sometimes when i use my sanpera II floorboard with it,(the vypyrs are known for this problem just like the mustang III-V has the fizz problem.

I also just bought a vox VT20+ back in december and when i tried it out at my local music store there was some noise from it but did not sound that bad,the music store was a little noisy with other people playing guitars through amps and the store lighting was causing some of the noise from the amp but after i played it at home i realized the noise was worse,it had a high self noise level when the power level was turned up(i did not notice this in the music store) and i also think it may have the snare drum noise problem that many complain about on the vox forums.

I am waiting for this music store to get more in stock so i could try another one out that i hope has no noise problems.

My point here is almost all of the competing brands selling these modeling amps also have there share of noise and other problems and it is not only the mustang III-V with the fizz problem.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:27 am
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bborzell wrote:
It is easy to dismiss concerns about product deficiencies described on the Internet by dragging out the, "the complainers are but a small part of
the entire universe and their complaints are therefore not representative of the performance of the product" line. Manufacturers do it all the time and people
who seek to defend their purchase often follow suit.


I am not seeking to defend my purchase. Can you please agree that i am i little bit clever than that ?
Again, I try to have a higher view, taking into account all the parameters and stick to the reality.
Few Fizz Amp reported, very few of those Fizzing amp declared as unusable by complainers.
And as far as it is stated in this thread, only one Fizzing that Fender refuse to replace for reason that are not clear for me.

Fender said: " The simple truth is that ...some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation".
That is what the Fizz is.
Officially.
No more that a limitation for some discerning listeners users.
I am not telling it.
This is not a personal interpretation.
But some people are not OK with that and try to " purport opinions, generalizations, and isolated incidents as hard evidence to lead us to believe something that is unsubstantiated" (sorry Scorpaeon but my poor English writing wouldn't have said better)

I disagree when you want it to be more than that.
I disagree when you want to discourage everyone willing to buy this amp.
Why the hell was it stated through some page of this thread that if you are lucky enough to have a non Fizz mustang it is just a mater of time before
you won't be able to use it ?

Because of that psychos, we get situation like that:
Metalman50 wrote:
I have the mustang I and V and i do not feel i got burned yet with my MV,i do not have the fizz problem but i know it may be only
a matter of time before it may happen and can understand how angry and unsatisfied everyone feels about this problem if you have it.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:11 am
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willmodelisme wrote:
Again, I try to have a higher view, taking into account all the parameters and stick to the reality.


You are entitled to your opinion ... but by stating that you "try to have a higher view" ... you insinuate that your opinion is superior. You are not the ultimate judge of the reality of Mustang ownership for anyone else but yourself.

willmodelisme wrote:
Few Fizz Amp reported, very few of those Fizzing amp declared as unusable by complainers.


In this thread viewtopic.php?f=27&t=64959&view=viewpoll ... which is a poll ... of the 50 responses to date ... 22 (44%) reported that their Mustang fizzed. Not a big sample to be sure ... but that doesn't sound like a "few" to me. Do you have a more accurate and representative number?

The sole judge of the useability of the amp is it's owner. If for the owner ... fizz diminishes the enjoyment of the amp or music ... for the style of music the owner prefers ... IMO it is likely the owner will eventually stop using the amp and move on to something else. The point is ... for the owners use ... he may consider the amp unusable because it's performance reduces his enjoyment. It doesn't matter to the owner that he can as an example switch from playing clean to playing dirty ... or that other people who like other styles like the amp.

willmodelisme wrote:
Fender said: " The simple truth is that ...some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation".
That is what the Fizz is.
Officially.
No more that a limitation for some discerning listeners users.
I am not telling it.
This is not a personal interpretation.
But some people are not OK with that and try to " [i]purport opinions, generalizations, and isolated incidents as hard evidence to lead us to believe something that is unsubstantiated"


If you wish to put stock in Fenders official response ... that's up to you ... personally I don't. However to many owners it's evident that ... to them ... fizz is not a small sonic variable only heard by the ears of the discerning.

IMO no report of fizz by a Mustang owner is unsubstantiated ... I take them at their word. If you get it or if you have it ... believe your own ears ... but iIMO you shouldn't discount the views of other owners who are bothered by fizz or Fenders handling of it.

willmodelisme wrote:
I disagree when you want to discourage everyone willing to buy this amp.


Fine ... again you're entitled to your opinion ... but there's no substantial difference between posting an opinion of the Mustang here than a review site or anywhere else. If a Mustang owner is dissatisfied with the performance of the amp he is free to say so. If that includes a warning to others ... so be it ... it's a common inclusion in product review and opinion.

willmodelisme wrote:
Why the hell was it stated through some page of this thread that if you are lucky enough to have a non Fizz mustang it is just a mater of time before you won't be able to use it ?


Because that is the opinion of the owner. You don't have to agree with him nor he you.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:09 am
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I'm having fun with the setup I got.

Guitar>Morley AB-Y>

A>Zoom>Zoom headphones>Mustang Aux/in

B>Mustang guitar input>

Mustang headphones/out>TASCAM (feckin' sweet).

The Highway One Stratocaster is bit noisy at full volume, so the source volume needs to be cranked and the guitar volume lowered to get a clean tone.

The Brawley 224 HT sounds phenomenal.

...the Behringer NR300 doesn't seem to be working today, the battery died, I'm using a universal power supply...it's lights are working but...today, there's no line noise so it just sat there, sucking juice.

Fortunately, the morely and behringer do not suck tone, I'm getting clean, identical levels in reaper.

Oh, the Highway One plays clean beautifully. I was playing out the 57 Deluxe and 4x12G cab with the compressor, chorus, delay, reverb... amazing. I A'd the Zoom for distortion parts.

I still can dial in fizz, but the tolerances are acceptable, I can get more gain with less fizz with the setup I'm working with, which makes for more expressive, subtle to raspy playing possible now.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:42 pm
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Posts: 94
willmodelisme wrote:
bborzell wrote:
It is easy to dismiss concerns about product deficiencies described on the Internet by dragging out the, "the complainers are but a small part of
the entire universe and their complaints are therefore not representative of the performance of the product" line. Manufacturers do it all the time and people
who seek to defend their purchase often follow suit.


I am not seeking to defend my purchase. Can you please agree that i am i little bit clever than that ?
Again, I try to have a higher view, taking into account all the parameters and stick to the reality.
Few Fizz Amp reported, very few of those Fizzing amp declared as unusable by complainers.
And as far as it is stated in this thread, only one Fizzing that Fender refuse to replace for reason that are not clear for me.

Fender said: " The simple truth is that ...some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation".
That is what the Fizz is.
Officially.
No more that a limitation for some discerning listeners users.
I am not telling it.
This is not a personal interpretation.
But some people are not OK with that and try to " purport opinions, generalizations, and isolated incidents as hard evidence to lead us to believe something that is unsubstantiated" (sorry Scorpaeon but my poor English writing wouldn't have said better)

I disagree when you want it to be more than that.
I disagree when you want to discourage everyone willing to buy this amp.
Why the hell was it stated through some page of this thread that if you are lucky enough to have a non Fizz mustang it is just a mater of time before
you won't be able to use it ?

Because of that psychos, we get situation like that:
Metalman50 wrote:
I have the mustang I and V and i do not feel i got burned yet with my MV,i do not have the fizz problem but i know it may be only
a matter of time before it may happen and can understand how angry and unsatisfied everyone feels about this problem if you have it.


I don't know how clever you are so I can't comment on that question.

I can, however, comment on the notion that there are few complainers and even fewer who consider the noise to make the amp unusable; and I will.

Firstly, I did not state that I believed that the amps were unusable. I actually listed several guitars and music styles for which I thought the Mustangs would be acceptable for my playing, given the ambient noise that would overpower the fizz.

That said, in my view, guitar amps are designed to "amplify", if you will, the sound produced by a pick or fingers striking the strings which is "picked up", so to speak, by a device commonly referred to as a Pickup which is then passed through various forms of electronic circuitry and eventually expressed by the movement of a driver, thereby producing the sound that the guitar player wants to hear.

While this description is a bit tongue in cheek and admittedly simplistic, it is important to note that nowhere in the description of this process is there any mention of, "followed by a fizzy digital aliasing sound that was never intended by either the amp designer or the person who plucked the strings in the first place" In fact, no amp manufacturer in their right mind would produce an amp and advertise that, "oh, by the way, the amp has this fizzy thing going on that most of you won't mind". They wouldn't get away with that because thoughtful amp shoppers would walk right on by. Only after a manufacturer sells thousands of amps that have this fizz thing lurking inside can a manufacturer get away with reframeing the issue to redefine clean tone as including added amp induced electronic artifacts.

The issue here is simple, in my view. While you apparently do not agree with this following point; amps should not add unintended noise to what we play. These amps do it and Fender admits the noise and says it's OK. You also say it's OK. I prefer to not support the notion of redefining what clean tone is simply to allow a company who made a small mistake to pretend that the mistake should be acceptable to people who expect clean tone to mean clean tone.

What defines clean tone should not be subject to a debate, particularly when what might have otherwise been clean tone is followed by a fizz. The fizz might be acceptable to you, but it ain't clean tone. The Mustangs should, at a minimum, start out with clean tone before all the doodads and modeling things are turned on and unfortunately for many people who have chimed in with this thread and many who have not (players who frequent the Jazzguitar.be site, for example), they don't.

By the way, "opinions and generalizations" being put forth as fact is not the issue here either. Fender has stated that the noise is there. No opinion by a malcontent, no generalization by a stretcher of the truth; but rather a statement of fact by the manufacturer.


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