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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:59 pm
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emcron wrote:
Rockcat, do you own a Vox Valvetronix VTX150 Pro Neodymium?


Not own unfortunately (although I'd like one for myself), but I have got hold of a loan one I'm trying out. Aside from the effects limitation I mentioned, and the limitations of its 1x12" design, I've been very impressed with it.

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"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:38 am
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Hi Fella's, I'm new to this forum and thought I'd register to join this discussion. I've had my Mustang III well over 4 months now and hadn't realized I was "infected" till I started reading this thread. I've been happily playing my Mtang without noticing anything strange until I did the "Fizz test" (holding a note on the low E string 9 - 10th position) and detected a phaser like fizz trail on a couple of clean patches. Just audible, but I could clearly hear it.

I could be wrong, but this leads me to believe that more or less most MIII are plagued with this fizz viral infection without us even knowing it and could wake up any moment from its dormant stage.

I do find it troubling that this condition could get worse to the point of not being able to use any clean patches, 'cause I really like this amp a whole lot.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hope that Fender comes up with a solution!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:20 pm
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Hi kidrock,

My experience is the same as yours. And I am led to believe that this is the average experience for the average user - that they will not know they have fizz until they look for it or stumble upon it.

Like you, am also hoping that it doesn't get worse. Some poeple have claimed that the fizz makes there amp unusable. I'm not saying I don't believe there are some extreme cases out there, but I'm not ready to chuck my $299 amp back at Fender because of a slightly annoying artifact on a few lingering notes.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:43 pm
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Hello everyone,

I read in some posts that the fizz issue doesn't happens when phones are
connected. I wonder, it happens when using the usb recording? And what
about using a stompbox (such like a boss gt series or a line 6 pod series)
using the send and return connections? Still fizz?


Walter


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:50 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:

Some poeple have claimed that the fizz makes there amp unusable. I'm not saying I don't believe there are some extreme cases out there, but I'm not ready to chuck my $299 amp back at Fender because of a slightly annoying artifact on a few lingering notes.


@Scorpaeon IMO if you play clean most of the time ... eventually the fizz will drive you crazy ...

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:09 am
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KenB5 wrote:
Scorpaeon wrote:

Some poeple have claimed that the fizz makes there amp unusable. I'm not saying I don't believe there are some extreme cases out there, but I'm not ready to chuck my $299 amp back at Fender because of a slightly annoying artifact on a few lingering notes.


@Scorpaeon IMO if you play clean most of the time ... eventually the fizz will drive you crazy ...

KenB


That sucks! Have been playing a lot of clean lately, but not much long drawn out notes to really notice. I just hope it doesn't get much worse.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:11 am
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kidrock wrote:
KenB5 wrote:
Scorpaeon wrote:

Some poeple have claimed that the fizz makes there amp unusable. I'm not saying I don't believe there are some extreme cases out there, but I'm not ready to chuck my $299 amp back at Fender because of a slightly annoying artifact on a few lingering notes.


@Scorpaeon IMO if you play clean most of the time ... eventually the fizz will drive you crazy ...

KenB


That sucks! Have been playing a lot of clean lately, but not much long drawn out notes to really notice. I just hope it doesn't get much worse.

If you play clean most of the time and the fizz is a concern you might want to consider other amps.

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but I just love my Mustang III a lot (call me a fanboy) and want people who read this thread to know that there is more than one view point on the fizz problem. A wise man once said, ‘there's two sides to every story and then there's the truth’.

Based on all the information that I’ve read plus my own experience, I am in the camp that believes that most, if not all, Mustang III – V will eventually fizz to some degree.

But in my mind, here is where the jury is still out – Is the fizz enough of an issue to condemn the Mustang III – V?

I have a Mustang III and it fizzes. I can make my amp sound exactly like these samples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H3gFU6e7o
http://soundcloud.com/spiesteleviv/fenderfizz/s-QkDHb

BUT, I submit to the jury, that I have to MAKE my amp sound like those samples. By dialing in a clean setting and playing a single note on a low string and let it ring to the point of decay. Does this scenario make my amp unusable? I don’t think so. I can play any song I know on the cleanest setting I want and the fizz is undetectable. Unless I end on a single lingering low note, and even then its not all that noticable and even less noticable depending on the actual setting. I would be very interested to hear a sample of someone actually playing music that is “ruined” by the fizz. The fact that we are fifty-some pages into this discussion, and there are countless demos on youtube, soundclick, soundcloud, whathaveyou, showcasing Mustang amps, and I can’t find a single example of an annoying tone due to fizz as applied in a real playing situation, leads me to believe that reports of the amp becoming unusable have been exaggerated.

Now granted, in large part my opinion is based on my experience with my amp. If your amp annoys you then so be it, you have a choice to make. And I’ll admit that my typical style of music is blues and classic rock. I usually play in the clean OD to heavy OD range with the occasional balls-ta-tha-wall distortion. If I was making a living off of pristine clean jazz and acoustic tones, yes of course, I would think twice about using an inexpensive modeling amp that’s known to fizz on clean settings.

HOWEVER, it’s evident to me, based on all the information that I’ve soaked in, that the average Mustang user will find that the Mustang amps exceed expectations for the quality and variety of tones that you can get from these amps. And THAT is still worth the very meager price of admission, even with the fizz, IMHO.

The amp is not perfect. There is still room for improvement. Would we all like Fender to fix the fizz? Absolutely! And I understand that $300 is still a lot of money to some people. But if that’s the kind of budget you have it’s a no brainer - the pros far outweigh the cons on this one.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:42 am
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Great post above!

I still use my mustang 1 because the fizz is fixed (not 100 % fixed, but say, 90%).

If f it wouldn't have been fixed, it would be collecting dust not because it would be unusable but just because I can't stand hearing that fizzy decay on some clean presets.

I would get a III once and only once it will be fixed. I'm sure that someone at Fender takes that problem very seriously and would like to fixe it once and for all. It's certainly not just a one man decision though.

Overall, those mustangs amps are killer amps for the money and the competition is certainly working very hard to offer something as good!

Time will tell.

Happy new year to everyone!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:48 am
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stratquebec wrote:
Great post above!

I still use my mustang 1 because the fizz is fixed (not 100 % fixed, but say, 90%).

...

Happy new year to everyone!


Could you tell us more about the fizz you still hear on your Mustang 1?

I've noticed something like the fizz with the compressor on but my Mustang 1
sounds pretty clean when effects are off.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:26 pm
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johnjaypl wrote:
Could you tell us more about the fizz you still hear on your Mustang 1?


Well, I don't want to hijack this thread and I don't want to make anyone afraid about their Mustang I or II. That being said, I am able to reproduce the exact same fizz I had with my Mustang I before they fixed it. At least almost completely fixed it.

Here's a setting that no one but me would ever use in the real world anyway so IT IS NOT A COMPLAIN. Remember, I'm very pleased with my M1 but the thing is that I like very much the tone I get with that setting and unfortunately, because of the fizz, that preset is not usable for a quiet tune with slow tempo and long lasting chords or notes but then I can get a similar tone without any fizz using different settings.

So here it is: On the Supersonic burn model, with the two gains all rolled off but the volume (and master on the mustang) all the way up, and the guitar's volume rolled off about half way. Here's what I get. (remember, it's a Supersonic on the burn channel. Normally you don't use that channel to get a clean tone anyway!) : Mustang I - Clean tone using a High Gain Supersonic burn channel model

Note: Things get better if I completely disengage the noise gate. Things get worse the more the noise gate is engaged. By default, the noise gate is engaged with the mid level setting.


Last edited by stratquebec on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:12 pm
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stratquebec wrote:
johnjaypl wrote:
Could you tell us more about the fizz you still hear on your Mustang 1?


Well, I don't want to hijack this thread and I don't want to make anyone afraid about their Mustang I or II. That being said, I am able to reproduce the exact same fizz I had with my Mustang I before they fixed it. At least almost completely fixed it.

Here's a setting that no one but me would ever use in the real world anyway so IT IS NOT A COMPLAIN. Remember, I'm very pleased with my M1 but the thing is that I like very much the tone I get with that setting and unfortunately, because of the fizz, that preset is not usable for a quiet tune with slow tempo and long lasting chords or notes but then I can get a similar tone without any fizz using different settings.

So here it is: On the Supersonic burn model, with the two gains all rolled off but the volume (and master on the mustang) all the way up, and the guitar's volume rolled off about half way. Here's what I get. (remember, it's a Supersonic on the burn channel. Normally you don't use that channel to get a clean tone anyway!) : Mustang I fizz

Note: Things get better if I completely disengage the noise gate. Things get worse the more the noise gate is engaged.


That's pretty subtle, Stratquebec. The clip that I think the OP posted was much more severe and it sounded like a messed up sitar. Completely unusable. You're right though. Who in his right mind would use the Supersonic model for cleans? I think most of the high gain models would give you that sound if you used them for a clean sound.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:38 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
... You're right though. Who in his right mind would use the Supersonic model for cleans? I think most of the high gain models would give you that sound if you used them for a clean sound.
O.


You're right ! That's why I don't complain and don't consider this as an issue. Note that I just renamed the url title to something more accurate.

So let's forget about the I and II. They are ok. Back to the original thread now!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:28 pm
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Like I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't notice the fizz until I read about it here. I've been playing a lot of clean these last few weeks and with normal playing I still don't notice the fizz.

I was wondering, couldn't somebody just make a Youtube clip of a Mustang III that has a real bad case of the fizziness? I mean not just long drawn out notes ('cause I could probably replicate that myself), but just some basic clean noodling. I'm just curious to hear if it's really that bad.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:34 pm
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I'm not an amp snob. I've owned and enjoyed a Polytone MiniBrute IV, a Yamaha G100, a Blues Jr, a couple Hot Rod DeLuxes, a Peavey Audition Plus, Roland Cube 30, Roland Cube 60, Peavey Studio Pro and a few others. All pretty inexpensive. I still have the Studio Pro and the Cube 60. None of those amps is perfect, or even "great" by cork-sniffer standards. The Mustang III is the only one I couldn't stand playing clean jazz on. To me it sounds defective.

The fizz isn't only on sustained bass notes, it's just easier to hear there. If you listen, it's there right from the time you pluck the string, and quite noticeable on certain notes on the lower four strings. The fact that it fizzes so much more on some notes than others is one of the most annoying aspects of it.

The nice man I went back and forth (by phone and email) with at Fender admitted that the MIII might not be a good jazz amp because of the fizz, which he attributes to the amp's output transformer. His suggestions:
-- Sell it on craigslist for a more suitable amp
-- I Pay to ship it to him and he'd send me a Mustang II. Not a I and a II, which would be the retail equal of what I paid for the III, minus my useless 4-button switch. Only a II. Hell, the M1 would probably cost them an extra $20! What was I thinking? I should be happy to be $340 plus shipping into the amp and get from them an amp that probably costs them well under$100. (Oh yes, and also forget about sending them the amp minus the speaker, so I could save on shipping and keep the better speaker to use in the MII or wherever. They won't entertain that idea either.)
-- Take it to a repair center to see if it's OK, but I'll have to pay the shop fee when they decide it's only the fizz.
-- And back to selling it on craigslist for a "more suitable" amp.

Pretty sad. I feed bad for the Fender guy too, as he did sound like a decent fellow. He should leave while his soul is intact.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:42 am
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Craigslist idea is interesting for a few reasons. Sell a amp on cl because it's defective? Hmmmm....

I've been scanning the ads in Chicago for months and I I've seen a couple of Mustang1's for sale. I've never seen a Mustang3. Not one! People are hanging on to them. Lots of pretty much everything else for sale though.


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