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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:27 am
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Dial up a clean setting such as the 65 Twin or the 65 Deluxe Reverb with the gain down so you're not getting any break-up, and volume up enough to hear it comfortably. Go to your low E string (the fat one so there's no confusion), strike and hold a B note (7th fret), and let it sustain. See if you hear a fizzing noise floating up and down in volume in addition to your note.


One of the best ways I've found to tell if your amp fizzes is to dial up a clean tone, roll the tone knob all the way down on your guitar and switch to the neck pickup & play a chord...Instant fizz if you have it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:01 am
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Rockcat wrote:
One of my engineer contacts is near Napa, in the San Francisco Bay area.

If you are in or near the area and have a fizzing MIII, and would be willing to have your amp examined, please let me know and let me have your contact details via PM when I will then be happy to help facilitate matters.

Rich :wink:


I just picked a used Mustang III from GC (manufacture date 112010). I thought I may have heard something (fizz on a clean setting) when I checked it out in the store, but I can't say for sure. I hadn't read about the issue at the time. When I got it home, I downloaded the Fuse software and it prompted me to do a firmware update, which I did. It now reads version 1.8 on the "about this amp" screen under utilities.

I just tested it and don't hear anything. I am using a Baja Tele on the #22 Touch of Reverb setting. I rolled the volume of the guitar down, and put the master volume on 8. I play a chord and don't hear anything. There is a slight hum from the amp because the volume is so high, but that is there when I don't play. I also tried it with the '65 Twin setting>gain 1.5>neck pick up volume full>master on 5. I don't hear the fizz.

I also did the same test with my RG3120, which has two humbuckers, and got the same result.

I guess this doesn't help as far as getting your friend to test it, but if it does start to fizz (as some have suggested develops over time), then I could probably get it to Napa as I live near Sacramento.

I think everyone with the problem has probably updated the firmware, but if you haven't, please give it a try. I noticed that you can update it apart from the Fuse software, I don't know if that makes a difference.

I hope this can get sorted out because like many have said it is a great versatile amp at a great price (especially used!)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:59 am
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guitarordinaire, you raise a very interesting & valid point. I think it would be eminently sensible for any amp tested to be on the latest firmware as it would be a more robust test.

Otherwise Fender might point out (& quite fairly) that it has been working on the software to try and cure or at least mitigate the problem. However, if this is the case I would have expected Fender to specifically refer to fizz alleviation as one of the aims (& benefits) of its latest update, especially in view of all the posts on fizzing here and elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge, they have not done so, which strongly suggests that this issue cannot be fixed via firmware upgrade.

The only reason we're trying to go the independent engineer route is because Fender is not being open with its customers as to the cause. If it explained clearly & fully what the problem was and whether they can do anything firmware wise to try & help resolve/mitigate the fizz, at least customers would feel a little more comfortable that Fender is acknowledging & taking ownership of the problem. As things are, my perception is that many customers feel that they have been left hanging and somewhat let down by Fender, which is a shame.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:04 pm
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Yes I agree that Fender would probably mention the fizz fix in the firmware update.

It does seem to be a power supply issue given that it is not present in the headphones.
Has anyone with a fizz amp tried an attenuator? Maybe you could bring the power down to the Mustang II level. It doesn't make sense since the fizz is present at low levels, but I guess it may be worth a shot.

Is there any issue using an attenuator with a solid state amp? Or the DSP?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:34 pm
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guitarordinaire wrote:
Is there any issue using an attenuator with a solid state amp? Or the DSP?


Unnecessary, & they wouldn't work anyway! - attenuators are only for all-tube amps so that you can push the power tubes but keep volumes lower (eg an AC30) - with all-valve amps you need a speaker load and units like a Marshall Power-brake or a Hotplate act as that load. A big plus of DSP amps is there are no tubes and you can play the amp at very low volumes with no need for any speaker load - hence why you can even run the Mustang V head just through headphones or leave it switched on with nothing connected without risk of harm to your amp. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:20 pm
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OK thanks.
I think I was thinking of a Variac, but that's probably not a solution either.
:roll:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:40 pm
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Rockcat wrote:
I believe France is 220/240v same as UK - so non-fizzing MIII's continue to suggest that the power section/mains transformer is a possible culprit! If that's the case it's no surprise that Fender is adopting the stance it has, as potential rectification could be a huge undertaking!


240 V do not make a difference: living in Germany (240 V) I a have my 3rd fizzing MIII:
- In July I order my first one: fizzing out of the box.
- I returned it to my dealer after a few days for exchange and got a new replacement model (manufacturing date April 2011): no difference, still fizzing out of the box.
- In view of the discussion in this forum I decided to keep it and wait for a potential fix during the warranty period.
- In November I wrote to Fender describing the problem. They told me to return the amp to my dealer who would get in touch with them to decide on how to proceed.
- I returned the second MIII to my dealer who forwarded it to Fender for repair.
- Two weeks later I received a totally new and recent MIII model from Fender (manufacturing date October 2011) with the short comment "Test OK": unfortunately still no difference, fizzing out of the box.
I do no longer trust that there will be a solution from Fender but I hope Rockcat's initiative will be successful.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:31 pm
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Thanks for that lphilippe. Seems the problem is therefore wider spread. :(

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:31 pm
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Two separate sources from Fender (dealer tech and consumer relations) in personal phone conversations both said that, "they all fizz." That really is a direct quote. I don't know how much more plain it can be. Fender also confirmed to me in a phone conversation with consumer relations that they know what the issue is but they cannot fix it on current models, which included III-V. Whether that means "can't" or "won't" is unknown. Clearly, for current warranty purposes, the practical answer is "won't."

If you need true and real "clean" and the samples of fizz widely posted bother you, then you really have to look for another solution. The Fender consumer relations rep I spoke with conceded that the Mustang III-V may not be suitable for guitarists looking for classic clean sounds, e.g. from twin or deluxe.

Rockcat wrote:
Thanks for that lphilippe. Seems the problem is therefore wider spread. :(


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:30 pm
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I am just wondering - How is it that some of us have amps that don't fizz?

I know it is possible that I am missing it but I did two of the suggested tests with two different guitars and I don't hear it. I think I have read some others who said their amp is also "fizz free".

Is it possible that the older amps are more likely to be good? When did they first come out? Less than a year ago, right? Maybe they switched power supplies after the release date?

Again, just wondering.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:16 am
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Mine has a very soft fizz, if you listen close to a fading clean note you can hear it, but you'd never hear it live or on recording in any kind of band context. I never notice it even in solo practicing.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:35 am
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brucefulton wrote:
Two separate sources from Fender (dealer tech and consumer relations) in personal phone conversations both said that, "they all fizz." That really is a direct quote. ...
If you need true and real "clean" and the samples of fizz widely posted bother you, then you really have to look for another solution. The Fender consumer relations rep I spoke with conceded that the Mustang III-V may not be suitable for guitarists looking for classic clean sounds, e.g. from twin or deluxe.


I think that Fender should start thinking to moderate this thread.
I seriously doubt the truthfulness of your statement.
First I cannot imagine one Fender representative saying such nonsense.
It is totally falls and you would be more then a decade to complain in this thread if this would be the truth.

That is also why I can deduce that he majority of us (mustang 3 or 4 owners) don't have any fizz.

I really support you guys trying to solve your problem but make no mistake including all of us in your troubles.

I can make beautiful clean tones out of my M3, and for sure I am not the only one.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:26 am
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For the record folks, and please be very clear on this, only SOME Fender Mustang III/IV/V fizz. I'm doing some further research on this with other forums. Already I have confirmation from several folk on the unofficial Fender forum that their amps don't fizz.

Interestingly, these appear to be early versions i.e. when they first came out. At the moment, I have no idea as to why some amps fizz and some don't - but it is possible (as suggested by guitarordinaire) that something may have subtly changed. As I've pointed out on many occasions, the MIII I had on approval for 3 weeks had no problems whatsoever.

I'm also intrigued by several statements here that some Mustangs have acquired the fizz after a relatively short period of time. I've no doubt that these statements are truthful from the owners perspective, but I also have to consider whether the owners have become more sensitive to the fizz after an initial 'honeymoon period' possibly influenced by this thread. Alternatively, something else could have changed eg quality of electricity, a different guitar cable etc. I'm not saying the fizz doesn't appear later on, but I am somewhat guarded here without independent advice. It seems much more probable to me that a Mustang either has the fizz or is fizz free from outset, but here is where independent technical evidence is going to be essential.

I fully appreciate that it's very difficult to keep emotions out of this, but independent technical evidence is the only way we're going to hopefully get some answers. Similar discussions have been had on the Vox forum re the VT+ Valvetronix series and again its a mystery as to why some amps are very quiet and others have loud hums/hisses.

All of this could be down to tolerance range of certain components whereby they may all be within specifications (as confirmed by Fender) but those at varying ends of the spectrum may be making the difference as between a fizzing & non-fizzing amp. If this should be the case, then its a component tolerance issue that could be rectified by a better quality component made to tighter tolerances.

But again this is all just hypothetical until we can get a fizzing amp professionally examined.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:23 am
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willmodelisme wrote:
brucefulton wrote:
Two separate sources from Fender (dealer tech and consumer relations) in personal phone conversations both said that, "they all fizz." That really is a direct quote. ...
If you need true and real "clean" and the samples of fizz widely posted bother you, then you really have to look for another solution. The Fender consumer relations rep I spoke with conceded that the Mustang III-V may not be suitable for guitarists looking for classic clean sounds, e.g. from twin or deluxe.


I think that Fender should start thinking to moderate this thread.
I seriously doubt the truthfulness of your statement.
First I cannot imagine one Fender representative saying such nonsense.
It is totally falls and you would be more then a decade to complain in this thread if this would be the truth.

That is also why I can deduce that he majority of us (mustang 3 or 4 owners) don't have any fizz.

I really support you guys trying to solve your problem but make no mistake including all of us in your troubles.

I can make beautiful clean tones out of my M3, and for sure I am not the only one.


What Fender needs to do is to stop stonewalling on this issue and give us some answers. If in fact the majority of MIII's don't fizz, then why isn't Fender fixing or replacing the ones that do? This is a serious consumer protection question.

Fender is apparently sacrificing its good name and reputation in exchange for the sale of a few Chinese-made amps. This does not seem very wise.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:34 am
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Hi, all! :D
I bought a Mustang V head a few months ago from a well-known German on-line shop.
It came in broken and I had to do some repair work on the power supply unit to get it up and running, but this is another story.
If I can find some time I will open a dedicated thread as this may be of some interest, regarding the internal structure and build quality of the amp.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that this particular amp does not "fizz" at all.
Cleans are crystal clean, whatever the guitar that is plugged-in, even at high volume.
I have played it a lot and still doing so and there is no evidence of any fizz developping over time - yet.
One caveat though: the chassis is not properly shielded, being wide open underneath, on both sides and on the front side.
Moreover, some pretty long printed circuit board low-level signal tracks are a recipe for picking up noise from nearby computer displays and data cables - or even from the high frequency switching circuitry in both the power supply and the power amp modules.
I believe the amp is potentially sensitive to the varying local electric/electromagnetic environments and conditions of use.


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