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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:06 am
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waao wrote:
KenB5 wrote:
@bborzell And you suggest that owners of fizzy Mustangs do ... what? Nothing ... roll over and die ... write a letter/email to Fender ... post/not post here ... what?

Fender can do whatever they want ... we have no control over that ... but we can also choose to do whatever we want. For me it's ... keep up the fight until Fender acknowledges the problem and addresses the fizzy amps in the hands of existing customers ... and never buy one single Fender product until they do ... not even a pick.
KenB


I think this is a matter closed to Fender. The Mustang II had the same problem but it was fixed. If they don't fix the Mustang III until now, they never will. I think.

Well, I understand your outrage, but there is nothing to do, unless you want to call a lawyer (you may need to get to this level to get a definitive answer from Fender, but the problem is likely to continue).



And what exactly is your employment position at Fender to speak on their behalf - I don't mean to sound irritated, but frankly I'm trying to get some answers from Fender and I'm a little fed up with these pointless and unhelpful responses. It's up to Fender to respond, and no one else on their behalf. Let's see how they formally respond to my e-mail.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:37 am
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Rockcat wrote:
And what exactly is your employment position at Fender to speak on their behalf - I don't mean to sound irritated, but frankly I'm trying to get some answers from Fender and I'm a little fed up with these pointless and unhelpful responses. It's up to Fender to respond, and no one else on their behalf. Let's see how they formally respond to my e-mail.


@Rockcat

Didn't seem to me that waao was speaking for Fender ... he has just as much right to voice an opinion here as anyone else. We all want to hear from Fender ... but if you're fed up with what you think are pointless responses ... maybe you should read something else ... nobody is going to keep quiet just to satisfy you.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:02 am
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Rockcat wrote:
And what exactly is your employment position at Fender to speak on their behalf - I don't mean to sound irritated, but frankly I'm trying to get some answers from Fender and I'm a little fed up with these pointless and unhelpful responses. It's up to Fender to respond, and no one else on their behalf. Let's see how they formally respond to my e-mail.


Hey man don't get me wrong, I did not want to offend anyone. I dont't speak for Fender, I just believe that Fender is not going to and it is waste of time to wait for Fender answer or fix the problem. It is just my opinion that they know the problem and choose ignore it. Perhaps the next generation of Mustang amplifiers will be better products, but who knows. For now, the MII is the best choice because it don't fizz (according some users).


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:28 am
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KenB5 wrote:
Rockcat wrote:
And what exactly is your employment position at Fender to speak on their behalf - I don't mean to sound irritated, but frankly I'm trying to get some answers from Fender and I'm a little fed up with these pointless and unhelpful responses. It's up to Fender to respond, and no one else on their behalf. Let's see how they formally respond to my e-mail.


@Rockcat

Didn't seem to me that waao was speaking for Fender ... he has just as much right to voice an opinion here as anyone else. We all want to hear from Fender ... but if you're fed up with what you think are pointless responses ... maybe you should read something else ... nobody is going to keep quiet just to satisfy you.

KenB


You're quite right. I have no wish to try and force my help on people if they don't want it - and frankly, I have a family, a busy career, professional exams to study for, gear to demo, and moderating responsibilities elsewhere. So I'll leave the problem with all of you to resolve. I'm sure Fender will be relieved that you're not expecting a response, that your expectations of a resolution are virtually zero, and that you've effectively given them your complete license to ignore the problem.

However, I'm sure continued postings similar to the above explaining why Fender won't respond will help you all enormously, so do keep posting these. In the meantime, I wish you all good luck, ...& of course, enjoy your fizz!

Rich :wink:

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Last edited by Rockcat on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:06 pm
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What are you guys waiting for? I know I read an official post from Fender where they acknowledged that under some conditions some players might be happy with every model.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:45 pm
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Rockcat wrote:
You're quite right. I have no wish to try and force my help on people if they don't want it - and frankly, I have a family, a busy career, professional exams to study for, gear to demo, and moderating responsibilities elsewhere. So I'll leave the problem with all of you to resolve. I'm sure Fender will be relieved that you're not expecting a response, that your expectations of a resolution are virtually zero, and that you've effectively given them your complete license to ignore the problem.

However, I'm sure continued postings similar to the above explaining why Fender won't respond will help you all enormously, so do keep posting these. In the meantime, I wish you all good luck, ...& of course, enjoy your fizz!

Rich :wink:


@Rich

No one said they didn't want to hear what you have to say ... no one said they didn't want you to tell us what Fender's reply is to your inquiries ... no one said you're not trying to help ... quite the contrary ... but when you disagree with someones post and reply as you did to waao ... don't be surprised if they or someone else disagrees with ya and pushes back a little.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:32 pm
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Push back??? What I don't understand is WHY you would want to 'push back' to someone who's trying to help you, by posting self-defeating negative posts with negative opinions backed up by no solid information that doesn't help anyone! Is it your ego's? - so if you couldn't get anything done then no one else can either? Is that it?

What makes me exasperated is that you're the one's with the fizzing amps...not me! All you've done on this thread for over 40 pages is moan and complain about the fizz and how Fender isn't taking responsibility. The moment someone tries to help you by opening a formal dialogue with Fender to get some straight answers, (and who also knows how to follow through & escalate if necessary) all you do is give 100 reasons why its a waste of time.

You don't want help, you don't want a resolution - all you want to do is to hear your own 'voices' by posting the same negative & moaning posts for over 40 pages and make excuses as to why you can't get anything done and why anyone who is trying to get something done is just wasting their time!

If that's what you want fine...but sorry, I don't have the time to waste! And if I sound angry - I am! I don't think I've ever been made angry on a forum before in all the years I've contributed to them., but you guys take the biscuit.

So I'll now gladly leave this with you to sort out with Fender.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:44 pm
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Rockcat wrote:
Push back??? What I don't understand is WHY you would want to 'push back' to someone who's trying to help you, by posting self-defeating negative posts with negative opinions backed up by no solid information that doesn't help anyone! Is it your ego's? - so if you couldn't get anything done then no one else can either? Is that it?

What makes me exasperated is that you're the one's with the fizzing amps...not me! All you've done on this thread for over 40 pages is moan and complain about the fizz and how Fender isn't taking responsibility. The moment someone tries to help you by opening a formal dialogue with Fender to get some straight answers, (and who also knows how to follow through & escalate if necessary) all you do is give 100 reasons why its a waste of time.

You don't want help, you don't want a resolution - all you want to do is to hear your own 'voices' by posting the same negative & moaning posts for over 40 pages and make excuses as to why you can't get anything done and why anyone who is trying to get something done is just wasting their time!

If that's what you want fine...but sorry, I don't have the time to waste! And if I sound angry - I am! I don't think I've ever been made angry on a forum before in all the years I've contributed to them., but you guys take the biscuit.

So I'll now gladly leave this with you to sort out with Fender.


@Rich

You evidently have left your objectivity and critical reading and thinking skills at the door today.

Why do you think you're the only one who has contacted Fender regarding their fizzy amp? Other people have. I have. It's not just you Rich.

In your reply to waao ... whose opinion you evidently didn't like ... why did imply that he was speaking for Fender and was a Fender employee? IMO you were out of line.

And what's this "and who also knows how to follow through & escalate if necessary" stuff ... sounds like your own bravado to me.

To answer your question ... this is why I push back at you ...

You act as if you are the only one who is seeking a resolution to their fizz problem directly with Fender. You disagree with someones post and discount it by implying that they are trying to speak for Fender and that they are a Fender employee. You discount the posts of others that offer up a theory as to the cause of the fizz, or express an opinion about Fender's handling of it etc by calling it "negative & moaning". You call the posts of others "pointless and unhelpful responses" when they have the right to say whatever they want within forum guidelines.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:10 pm
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I don't deny anyone the right to pursue an issue to whatever end they may hope for, but I also don't need them to do it on the basis that they are 'helping me'. I can look after myself and make my own decisions.

I think a part of the problem here is that in my perception many (most ?) of the people who have engaged with this issue on this forum over the past few months have either moved off or moved on, in both cases with a nasty taste left in the mouth, and to some who were 'scarred' in that process I think this probably just feels a bit like picking the scab.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:15 am
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If you can look after yourselves and make your own decisions, that's great. If you've moved on, then that's all good too.

If I'd got the same stonewalling as everyone else & you'd said 'nice try, but we did tell you' I'd have no problem.

But to negatively shoot down someones efforts & tell them they're wasting their time even before giving a chance to see what might happen, not only shows a lack of objectivity, but also creates a self-fulfilling prophecy which is not helpful to those that might want some answers. Yes, you of course have the right to post your opinions & theories - but you've done that for 43 pages and still haven't got any clear answers - so is posting another 40 pages of the same going to help?

The point is (& I'm being very objective here) is that so far no-one has yet clarified from Fender exactly why the fizz is there e.g. if there are specific components causing the problem.

Regardless of whether any type of fix is ultimately possible or economic, the first stage must surely be to identify the cause - and so far far no-one has yet done that. Then if there is a solution, it's up to to Mustang owners to decide what they want to do. But to keep posting that its a waste of time trying to find out, is what annoyed me.

But hey, these are your amps and as has been pointed out you're all more than capable of dealing with this yourselves and I bow to your views & will leave this for those of you that want to pursue matters to do so with no ill-feelings and genuine best wishes that you can get the resolution you want.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:46 am
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Rockcat wrote:
If you can look after yourselves and make your own decisions, that's great. If you've moved on, then that's all good too.

If I'd got the same stonewalling as everyone else & you'd said 'nice try, but we did tell you' I'd have no problem.

But to negatively shoot down someones efforts & tell them they're wasting their time even before giving a chance to see what might happen, not only shows a lack of objectivity, but also creates a self-fulfilling prophecy which is not helpful to those that might want some answers. Yes, you of course have the right to post your opinions & theories - but you've done that for 43 pages and still haven't got any clear answers - so is posting another 40 pages of the same going to help?

The point is (& I'm being very objective here) is that so far no-one has yet clarified from Fender exactly why the fizz is there e.g. if there are specific components causing the problem.

Regardless of whether any type of fix is ultimately possible or economic, the first stage must surely be to identify the cause - and so far far no-one has yet done that. Then if there is a solution, it's up to to Mustang owners to decide what they want to do. But to keep posting that its a waste of time trying to find out, is what annoyed me.

But hey, these are your amps and as has been pointed out you're all more than capable of dealing with this yourselves and I bow to your views & will leave this for those of you that want to pursue matters to do so with no ill-feelings and genuine best wishes that you can get the resolution you want.

Rich :wink:


Rich ... speaking for myself ... I'm not begrudging your effort to take up the matter directly with Fender and I don't think anyone else here is either.

No ill feelings on my part as well.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:58 pm
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Myself, I'd be curious to know what Fender tells you. Pessimism aside, I think most everyone else would as well. ;)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:00 am
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Rockcat wrote:
bborzell - pointless post in trying to second guess Fender. There's too much speculation/guessing already so let's just see what Fender says. :wink:

Update: Matt Davey (Fender UK) has sent me an e-mail response - he's looking into this and will hopefully be back to me later today.

Rich :wink:


Pointless post? You might consider getting over yourself. Fact is Fender did exactly what I said they would do some months back. it wasn't all that hard to predict. If anything is pointless, it is perhaps repeating the same behavior and expecting different results.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:18 am
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KenB5 wrote:
bborzell wrote:
What causes anyone to think that Fender has a reason to depart from what they have already said? It is a no win situation for them. If they change course now, they will take heat for flipping and if they stay the course, they will continue to see some degree of disgruntled posts here until even that sentiment tails off for lack of interest.

They have untold numbers of Mustangs in customers hands. To even hint that there is an actionable problem with these amps would open floodgates of owners wanting fixes. In one fell swoop, the thus far profitability of the Mustang line would be on the line and at serious risk.

Yes, I understand all the arguments about this being a black mark on Fender's reputation, but consider that they can and will live to forget this matter. Not too long after the last fizzy Mustang goes out their factory door, this issue will become history for all but the relatively small number of folks who either follow this thread or who have the discriminating ears that Fender spoke about.

At this stage of the game, Fender has no choice other than to live with the course they have selected.


@bborzell And you suggest that owners of fizzy Mustangs do ... what? Nothing ... roll over and die ... write a letter/email to Fender ... post/not post here ... what?

Fender can do whatever they want ... we have no control over that ... but we can also choose to do whatever we want. For me it's ... keep up the fight until Fender acknowledges the problem and addresses the fizzy amps in the hands of existing customers ... and never buy one single Fender product until they do ... not even a pick.

KenB


I am not suggesting that Mustang owners do anything primarily becasue the options are so limited. Return the amp, if that is practical. Swap it out at a fender service center and hope the replacement is fizz free. Other than that, Fender has loosed off all other options and, in doing so, they have drawn a line in the sand that no profitable corporation would be willing to revisit, given the specter of thousands of affected amps. They have stated that these amp perform within specifications. To flip on that statement would open the floodgates for potentially thousands of amps being returned for what; replacements that also fizz?

I am also not suggesting that anyone give up the fight or continue to purchase products from Fender if he/she feels that they have been wronged. What I am saying is that the issue is over from Fender's perspective. It is entirely possible that my Princeton is the last Fender product I will buy because of the manner in which his matter has been addressed. I was one of the early folks who both wrote and called Fender in order to determine how or if Fender would address the fizz. Both of my phone calls left me believing that Fender recognized the fizz and that they found it to be unacceptable. That they turned away from that original position with a suggestion that perhaps some customers had overly discriminating ears tells me that they are done on this topic.

That stated, keeping the topic alive might serve to kick start an eventual fix although such a fix is unlikely to be retrospective.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:33 am
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Rockcat wrote:
Regardless of whether any type of fix is ultimately possible or economic, the first stage must surely be to identify the cause - and so far far no-one has yet done that. Then if there is a solution, it's up to to Mustang owners to decide what they want to do. But to keep posting that its a waste of time trying to find out, is what annoyed me.


I am absolutely certain that Fender engineers have this already all figured out and probably have the fix already designed and tested. But don't expect anything until the second generation of Mustangs (I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during the fire-drill meetings that Fender stuff must have had on this issue :wink: ). That is just practical reality.

The line 'the amps are within spec as far as we are concerned' is just the only practical option they have right now - note that statement is very vague and subjective. The amp are fully functional. but some of them demonstrate a minor background noise that some guitarists (like me :( ) will find unacceptable/ How do you put a number on that?

Therefore, I tool the only practical option for me: I returned it and got a II. That is my recommendation for anyone who has the fizz. If you are beyond the 30 day return policy, return it to Fender as under warranty. That will give Fender a much stronger message than ranting in this thread.

Under the present circumstances, I would not recommend that anyone with a fizzing amp keeps it with the hope that there will be a fix for it other than buying another one when the next generation comes out.

Now, I love the Mustang amps, the quality of the modeling the flexibility and the features.Too bad there was this glitch. After discovering the Mustang amp. I was actually thinking of writing a message to Fender congratulating them for a fantastic job on this line of amps. Now, I would have to make it a very 'mixed message', unfortunately.


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