It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:49 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1472 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 ... 99  Next
Go to page Previous  1 ... 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 ... 99  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:38 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:10 pm
Posts: 406
I had my mustang V since march 2011 and it still is fizz free so far but i know it is just a matter of time until the fizz problem may happen but what i and many here would like to know is how long did anyone with the mustang III-V have there amps fizz free so far and how long ago did they purchase there mustangs?


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:48 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 262
Metalman50 wrote:
I had my mustang V since march 2011 and it still is fizz free so far but i know it is just a matter of time until the fizz problem may happen but what i and many here would like to know is how long did anyone with the mustang III-V have there amps fizz free so far and how long ago did they purchase there mustangs?


Sorry, but this sounds a bit odd to me. I can understand that some Mustangs have the fizz from outset whilst others don't. Based on reports here I also note that some Mustangs also appear to have developed the fizz after an initial period. However, I am wondering if this is actually the case, or whether people are now listening for this since they bought their amps and genuinely believe that it wasn't there originally and has appeared?

If it really is appearing later on, then this can ONLY happen if a particular component has failed - and if that is the case then the component is clearly not of adequate quality and is a product defect.

But as yet there is no evidence whatsoever that this 'fizz' is inevitable - in fact, my understanding is that the vast majority of customers don't have this problem. I suspect that certain components may have a 'wide-quality tolerance' with some components being fine whilst others aren't.

There's a lot of disinformation and guesses flying around and its high time this was all brought out into the open and clarified properly. This shouldn't be something shrouded in mystery. Hence why I've asked Fender exactly why the fizz is being caused - they know, so I want them to tell its customers the whole truth and hence why I've written to Loren Howard and Alan Willey at Fender Technical in the US and Mark Davey in the UK for some clear answers to all this.

Rich :wink:

_________________
"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:38 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am
Posts: 184
Rockcat wrote:
There's a lot of disinformation and guesses flying around and its high time this was all brought out into the open and clarified properly. This shouldn't be something shrouded in mystery. Hence why I've asked Fender exactly why the fizz is being caused - they know, so I want them to tell its customers the whole truth and hence why I've written to Loren Howard and Alan Willey at Fender Technical in the US and Mark Davey in the UK for some clear answers to all this.


@Rockcat +1,000,000!

KenB


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:38 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:38 am
Posts: 98
Does Rockcat own a Mustang?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:18 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:36 pm
Posts: 182
Rockcat wrote:
Metalman50 wrote:
I had my mustang V since march 2011 and it still is fizz free so far but i know it is just a matter of time until the fizz problem may happen but what i and many here would like to know is how long did anyone with the mustang III-V have there amps fizz free so far and how long ago did they purchase there mustangs?


Sorry, but this sounds a bit odd to me. I can understand that some Mustangs have the fizz from outset whilst others don't. Based on reports here I also note that some Mustangs also appear to have developed the fizz after an initial period. However, I am wondering if this is actually the case, or whether people are now listening for this since they bought their amps and genuinely believe that it wasn't there originally and has appeared?

If it really is appearing later on, then this can ONLY happen if a particular component has failed - and if that is the case then the component is clearly not of adequate quality and is a product defect.

But as yet there is no evidence whatsoever that this 'fizz' is inevitable - in fact, my understanding is that the vast majority of customers don't have this problem. I suspect that certain components may have a 'wide-quality tolerance' with some components being fine whilst others aren't.

There's a lot of disinformation and guesses flying around and its high time this was all brought out into the open and clarified properly. This shouldn't be something shrouded in mystery. Hence why I've asked Fender exactly why the fizz is being caused - they know, so I want them to tell its customers the whole truth and hence why I've written to Loren Howard and Alan Willey at Fender Technical in the US and Mark Davey in the UK for some clear answers to all this.

Rich :wink:

I my case, onset at five weeks was clear and obvious. As a former registered and certified piano tuner/technician, I know how to listen to overtones and tone components and can assure you that as primarily a jazz/acoustic player looking for satisfactory clean settings, I listened very carefully during the vendors 30 day return window. By the time I returned it, it was bad enough that my wife even commented on it. I do think it's possible that people who are interested primarily in the modeling and effects, especially with even a little crunch or intentional distortion may have a fizzing amp and not know or care. But the technician my local warranty center talked to and the consumer service rep I talked to were both very clear that they believe all of them (III and up) fizz. Perhaps some are worse than others, and perhaps some may take longer than others before it's apparent. The rep I talked to actually started with the statement that it was an engineering design. Later, he said that it was within the engineering specification. He said they know where in the system it is coming from and there is nothing they can do to fix it. What that really means would be speculation on my part. This wasn't the amp for me and I'm moving on to something else.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:33 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 262
emcron wrote:
Does Rockcat own a Mustang?


As stated on many occasions, I had a Mustang III on approval from DV247 in the UK for a little over 3 weeks. During that time the amp performed flawlessly. I therefore actually have no personal 'investment' in the outcome.

However, it is abundantly clear from over 40 pages in this thread that problems exist with the MIII and above, giving rise to so many 'fizz' reports. I'm simply trying to help the Mustang user community here by encouraging Fender to give its customers some straight answers....customers trust the Fender name, and have spent their hard earned cash on Mustang amps. If there's a problem, and this now appears to have been formally acknowledged by Fender based on recent postings, Fender needs to be fair and open with its customers as to exactly why the problem is there. They employ top, very competent people and the cause must have already been identified by the Fender techs.

Common sense strongly suggests this is most unlikely to be a software issue, or Fender would merely have issued new firmware. So, logically it must then be a component issue and Fender will know which from its research of the problem. If the components are identified, even if Fender believes these are within its specs, then it will at least give existing Mustang customers who are suffering from fizz the option to have the components upgraded by an amp tech to remedy the issue.

I simply believe that Mustang customers affected by this fizz are entitled to some straight answers from Fender, and are given information and choice re a resolution. I'm therefore merely trying to help facilitate a suitable response from them.

Rich :wink:

_________________
"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:04 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 8
Location: northern CA
Rockcat wrote:

Common sense strongly suggests this is most unlikely to be a software issue, or Fender would merely have issued new firmware. So, logically it must then be a component issue and Fender will know which from its research of the problem. If the components are identified, even if Fender believes these are within its specs, then it will at least give existing Mustang customers who are suffering from fizz the option to have the components upgraded by an amp tech to remedy the issue.


Except in my case, the fizz decreased about 95% when I upgraded to 1.8 (from whatever it was as of 2/11 manufacturing date) :?:

jon


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:47 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 183
bluzedoc wrote:
Except in my case, the fizz decreased about 95% when I upgraded to 1.8
This suggests there are multiple problems that can cause sonic artifacts people might label "fizz". Others didn't see improvement after firmware upgrading, or saw increased fizz over time with no software changes, suggesting the other/core problem isn't software related.

Or perhaps there's a confounding factor in your case, one unrelated to the firmware upgrade. I suppose you could check that possibility by downgrading and seeing if you get the problem again.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:01 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:10 am
Posts: 9
Unfortunately, this reinforces my prediction that we will not see a fix until the 2nd generation of Mustangs. Oh well, I am quite happy with my Mustang II for now.

brucefulton wrote:
Rockcat wrote:
Metalman50 wrote:
I had my mustang V since march 2011 and it still is fizz free so far but i know it is just a matter of time until the fizz problem may happen but what i and many here would like to know is how long did anyone with the mustang III-V have there amps fizz free so far and how long ago did they purchase there mustangs?


Sorry, but this sounds a bit odd to me. I can understand that some Mustangs have the fizz from outset whilst others don't. Based on reports here I also note that some Mustangs also appear to have developed the fizz after an initial period. However, I am wondering if this is actually the case, or whether people are now listening for this since they bought their amps and genuinely believe that it wasn't there originally and has appeared?

If it really is appearing later on, then this can ONLY happen if a particular component has failed - and if that is the case then the component is clearly not of adequate quality and is a product defect.

But as yet there is no evidence whatsoever that this 'fizz' is inevitable - in fact, my understanding is that the vast majority of customers don't have this problem. I suspect that certain components may have a 'wide-quality tolerance' with some components being fine whilst others aren't.

There's a lot of disinformation and guesses flying around and its high time this was all brought out into the open and clarified properly. This shouldn't be something shrouded in mystery. Hence why I've asked Fender exactly why the fizz is being caused - they know, so I want them to tell its customers the whole truth and hence why I've written to Loren Howard and Alan Willey at Fender Technical in the US and Mark Davey in the UK for some clear answers to all this.

Rich :wink:

I my case, onset at five weeks was clear and obvious. As a former registered and certified piano tuner/technician, I know how to listen to overtones and tone components and can assure you that as primarily a jazz/acoustic player looking for satisfactory clean settings, I listened very carefully during the vendors 30 day return window. By the time I returned it, it was bad enough that my wife even commented on it. I do think it's possible that people who are interested primarily in the modeling and effects, especially with even a little crunch or intentional distortion may have a fizzing amp and not know or care. But the technician my local warranty center talked to and the consumer service rep I talked to were both very clear that they believe all of them (III and up) fizz. Perhaps some are worse than others, and perhaps some may take longer than others before it's apparent. The rep I talked to actually started with the statement that it was an engineering design. Later, he said that it was within the engineering specification. He said they know where in the system it is coming from and there is nothing they can do to fix it. What that really means would be speculation on my part. This wasn't the amp for me and I'm moving on to something else.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:27 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 262
Let's just see what Fender says - as I said, we're all guessing as to what's causing the fizz at the moment :wink:

_________________
"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


Last edited by Rockcat on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:06 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:11 am
Posts: 387
Rockcat

If you do get a real reply from anyone at Fender on this - as opposed to the carefully lawyer-vetted "tough, these are cheap amps, live with it" statement put out last time - you deserve a medal.

Not sure that you need to worry about which shirt to pin it on just yet though !


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:18 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:25 pm
Posts: 94
What causes anyone to think that Fender has a reason to depart from what they have already said? It is a no win situation for them. If they change course now, they will take heat for flipping and if they stay the course, they will continue to see some degree of disgruntled posts here until even that sentiment tails off for lack of interest.

They have untold numbers of Mustangs in customers hands. To even hint that there is an actionable problem with these amps would open floodgates of owners wanting fixes. In one fell swoop, the thus far profitability of the Mustang line would be on the line and at serious risk.

Yes, I understand all the arguments about this being a black mark on Fender's reputation, but consider that they can and will live to forget this matter. Not too long after the last fizzy Mustang goes out their factory door, this issue will become history for all but the relatively small number of folks who either follow this thread or who have the discriminating ears that Fender spoke about.

At this stage of the game, Fender has no choice other than to live with the course they have selected.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:26 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 262
bborzell - pointless post in trying to second guess Fender. There's too much speculation/guessing already so let's just see what Fender says. :wink:

Update: Matt Davey (Fender UK) has sent me an e-mail response - he's looking into this and will hopefully be back to me later today.

Rich :wink:

_________________
"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:03 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am
Posts: 184
bborzell wrote:
What causes anyone to think that Fender has a reason to depart from what they have already said? It is a no win situation for them. If they change course now, they will take heat for flipping and if they stay the course, they will continue to see some degree of disgruntled posts here until even that sentiment tails off for lack of interest.

They have untold numbers of Mustangs in customers hands. To even hint that there is an actionable problem with these amps would open floodgates of owners wanting fixes. In one fell swoop, the thus far profitability of the Mustang line would be on the line and at serious risk.

Yes, I understand all the arguments about this being a black mark on Fender's reputation, but consider that they can and will live to forget this matter. Not too long after the last fizzy Mustang goes out their factory door, this issue will become history for all but the relatively small number of folks who either follow this thread or who have the discriminating ears that Fender spoke about.

At this stage of the game, Fender has no choice other than to live with the course they have selected.


@bborzell And you suggest that owners of fizzy Mustangs do ... what? Nothing ... roll over and die ... write a letter/email to Fender ... post/not post here ... what?

Fender can do whatever they want ... we have no control over that ... but we can also choose to do whatever we want. For me it's ... keep up the fight until Fender acknowledges the problem and addresses the fizzy amps in the hands of existing customers ... and never buy one single Fender product until they do ... not even a pick.

KenB


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:46 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:13 am
Posts: 17
KenB5 wrote:
@bborzell And you suggest that owners of fizzy Mustangs do ... what? Nothing ... roll over and die ... write a letter/email to Fender ... post/not post here ... what?

Fender can do whatever they want ... we have no control over that ... but we can also choose to do whatever we want. For me it's ... keep up the fight until Fender acknowledges the problem and addresses the fizzy amps in the hands of existing customers ... and never buy one single Fender product until they do ... not even a pick.
KenB


I think this is a matter closed to Fender. The Mustang II had the same problem but it was fixed. If they don't fix the Mustang III until now, they never will. I think.

Well, I understand your outrage, but there is nothing to do, unless you want to call a lawyer (you may need to get to this level to get a definitive answer from Fender, but the problem is likely to continue).


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1472 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 ... 99  Next
Go to page Previous  1 ... 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 ... 99  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: