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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:17 am
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SoManyGuitars wrote:
I've heard (here on the forum), that Fender is *NOT* repairing these, and considers the FIZZ to be part of the "Mustang Sound".



Re: Post by Loren Howard "Official Fender Announcement Regarding Mustang III, IV, V."
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=59203

"Dear Fender Mustang Community,

We are aware of the various discussions regarding the “fizz” phenomenon, in which some Mustang amp users notice sound that they find undesirable. We researched the issue and found that under certain combined conditions, using certain settings and playing techniques, an artifact can be produced in Mustang III, IV and V amplifiers.

The simple truth is that while we were able to include great tones and many useful features into an extremely affordable box, within the vast array of sounds, some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation. Nevertheless, legions of Mustang amp users have proven and agree that the Mustang amplifier series delivers great value, versatility and sound.

As a forward-thinking company of musicians, we always welcome all consumer opinion and insight that helps drive our constant development of innovative new products. Technology moves fast, and so we continue to develop products that offer guitarists newer and better tools to make music.

Best Regards,
The Fender Tech Support Lab"

As far as I know, in this forum, the above is the only response from Fender on the matter. In it ... Fender did not say they wouldn't do warranty service for the fizz problem ... BUT ... they definitely said the fizz was caused by the customer ... or the customer was ... by implication ... too "discerning".

Since Fender refuses to take ownership of the problem ... blame for the problem has been defaulted to the customer by Fender. So ... I'm not surprised the dealer told cormorant that they were returning his amp to him unfixed until further notice by Fender.

For customers who's fizz problem has been unabated ... Fender has taken their money and weaseled out of their responsibility by claiming the fizz problem is the customers doing ... they've snaked those customers.

This is why I will never buy another Fender product for my years remaining ... not guitars, not amps, not parts ... not even a pick. I encourage others to do the same ... there is plenty of good equipment to be had from companies who care enough to treat their customers better than Fender has treated these Mustang customers.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:28 am
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I know you're disappointed Ken (and the others that are having fizz issues), but you're blowing this way out of proportion. You blaim Fender for selling faulty product, while there is no evidence whatsoever that the problems are caused by bad hardware. Again, I understand your disappointment, but please think a bit more about what can be done instead of spreading negativity on the forums. It's really not necessary.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:58 pm
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BlackPatch wrote:
I know you're disappointed Ken (and the others that are having fizz issues), but you're blowing this way out of proportion. You blaim Fender for selling faulty product, while there is no evidence whatsoever that the problems are caused by bad hardware. Again, I understand your disappointment, but please think a bit more about what can be done instead of spreading negativity on the forums. It's really not necessary.


Naw, I'm with Ken on this one....
You suggested he "think a bit more about what can be done instead of spreading negativity on the forums", but nothing more CAN be done...

He bought an amp, it doesn't work properly, and Fender tells him it's not SUPPOSED to work correctly, and that's all they're going to do.

And you expect him to "think about what can be done"?

This issue is not being "blown out of proportion" as you say, quite the contrary.
I saw one poll, where approx 50% of users, (with a sample size near 100), had experienced 'Fizz".

That's pretty significant.
Mine doesn't 'fizz' and I'm glad, but this is a big issue for Fender to sweep under the rug.

Rage On Ken!! :)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:11 pm
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Rage is most appropriate. Fender has mass-produced and sold a faulty product yet refuses to take any responsibility for it. Then it further insults the customers with this outrageous insinuation that its consumers are just too danged finicky and that they should accept a loud fuzz sound with every note they hit. It would be laughable if it didn't involve serious legal issues.

Welcome to the New Fender. We make garbage, and you eat it and like it. Unless you're "too discerning".

Fender products. Clearly, not made for the discerning.

Fortunately, Mesa, Marshall, Vox, Traynor, Sewell, Soldano and all the smaller American brands are.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:14 pm
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BlackPatch wrote:
I know you're disappointed Ken (and the others that are having fizz issues), but you're blowing this way out of proportion. You blaim Fender for selling faulty product, while there is no evidence whatsoever that the problems are caused by bad hardware. Again, I understand your disappointment, but please think a bit more about what can be done instead of spreading negativity on the forums. It's really not necessary.


Uhm ... and what would that be?

Perhaps buy another guitar, change pickups or what ever in a blind effort to avoid Fenders proclaimed "We researched the issue and found that under certain combined conditions, using certain settings and playing techniques, an artifact can be produced in Mustang III, IV and V amplifiers." condition? When in fact if your amp fizzes on even the most benign clear settings ... it fizzes no matter what the guitar or settings ya use.

Perhaps get a pair of new ears in an attempt to become less "discerning" as Fender implies. We're not supposed to listen ... is that it?

Perhaps accept fizz as a small "sonic variable" as Fender calls it ... when in fact the fizz is easily audible and annoying.

IMO ... there is no evidence that Fender sold a faulty product because they will not admit it in public ... simple as that. Users did not create the fizz problem by virtue of not having the right guitar ... what ever that is ... or the right settings ... what ever they are ... or the right playing technique ... what ever that is ... or the right combination of all of that ... what ever that is.

Sorry BlackPatch ... IMO Fender asked for the bad press and criticism ... and they deserve every bit of it ... to the last syllable.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:17 pm
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
Fender products. Clearly, not made for the discerning.


Oh ... that's a good one!

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:49 pm
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BlackPatch wrote:
I know you're disappointed Ken (and the others that are having fizz issues), but you're blowing this way out of proportion. You blaim Fender for selling faulty product, while there is no evidence whatsoever that the problems are caused by bad hardware. Again, I understand your disappointment, but please think a bit more about what can be done instead of spreading negativity on the forums. It's really not necessary.

Well, if it's not the hardware, it's the software... Both of which Fender design, manufacture and sell.
So, I'm sorry, *whose* fault is it?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:18 pm
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SoManyGuitars wrote:
BlackPatch wrote:
I know you're disappointed Ken (and the others that are having fizz issues), but you're blowing this way out of proportion. You blaim Fender for selling faulty product, while there is no evidence whatsoever that the problems are caused by bad hardware. Again, I understand your disappointment, but please think a bit more about what can be done instead of spreading negativity on the forums. It's really not necessary.

Well, if it's not the hardware, it's the software... Both of which Fender design, manufacture and sell.
So, I'm sorry, *whose* fault is it?


Fenders for sure.... Hardware or software... still they're fault...

I have fizz in the Mustang 4 but I only notice it when I'm about 2 or three feet from the amp sitting on chair.... Live gigs.. no worries and no problems... But I feel for the rest of the people who not only feel they got burned but actually did get burned....

Like some have stated... I've had way worse problems with tube amps... snap crackle pop.. hiss. bang... and what ever....but it still doesn't excuse Fender... They promised something.. but only came through for so many.. but not everyone.... then when they made an official statement... I just had too laugh... and realized at that moment... whoever is control now... truly is not what Fender intended to be... :(

Sorry for the rant.. Fender used to be true blue.. but it ain't no longer.. changing with the times.. I guess....


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:28 pm
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I got curious and came back to see of anything changed. Sadly not. I still have my Mustang I, no point in getting rid of it it sounds good and I will have monkey money for it since it's 100$ new and the Fizzgate has spread over big time...let's say you can have a Mustang whatever for little money used right now...resale value has tanked big time.

I am digging quite a bit my new Blackstar/Orange ppc112 setup :) It was a little pricier than the Mustang III but seems you get what you pay for. At least I landed the cab used for a good price and with that V30 in there, it sounds SWEET! :)

For the record, I am in the market for a bolt guitar, Stratish...I am right now weighting the pros and cons of the Carvin Bolt-T and a Shur...Shur is kinda pricey though, very nice guitar however. It could have been a Fender Strat but I am no moron...burn me once but not twice. Fender is not seeing my money, ever again. It probably won't make any difference in the end and the corporate dweebs will laugh with their year end bonus at Fender, but at least I'll have the feeling that I am not encouraging a bunch of crooks.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:03 pm
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
...
Welcome to the New Fender. We make garbage, and you eat it and like it. Unless you're "too discerning".

Fender products. Clearly, not made for the discerning.

....


Maybe their attitude is just a natural outcome of a company that makes many of the same products at 6 or so different quality levels. When you make so many different "quality" strats, for example, after a while, what can the word quality really mean to you. Maybe to them it means, "You get what you pay for."

Which might be what they were saying with:

Quote:
...
The simple truth is that while we were able to include great tones and many useful features into an extremely affordable box, within the vast array of sounds, some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation. ...


Never-the-less, the phrase "smallest sonic variable" is hard to connect with the fizz problem.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:59 pm
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Good analogy...
So this is the "Squier" of Fender's amp line... or even beneath that....


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:21 am
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I think the bottom line is that the Mustang III is great for high gain playing, but if you're looking for pristine Fender cleans in an amp capable of professional gigging, you're not going to get it in this $299 amplifier-simulation. It's almost there, but not quite ready for prime time.

What I'm taking away from Fender's "official statement" (recently detached and abandoned into Forum oblivion) and subsequent long-standing silence, is that there is no fix. Also, if it was a problem that only occurred in some amps, they would have sent me a replacement amp and not sent my fizzy amp back home. I suspect that the higher the power, the more noticeable the fizz. Remember, the IV and V are each two 75 watt amps. The III is one 100 watt amp.

I guess the answer lies in the next generation of modeling software and chips. That will be for someone else however--I'm done paying $299 to be an involuntary beta tester.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:14 am
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Well, if a 320$ CAD amp is a "Squier" model of an amp than justifies digital artifacts on clean and lower gain presets even a tone deaf musician can hear... then, is Squier a nice word for selling crap?

I wonder how a "lower end" amp that cost 400$, which is the Blackstar HT-5R, can have Marshalish pristine clean and no tube or digital artifacts, and is built in China,...seems like 80$ more is what it costs to make a good amp in a Fender world...oops...I forgot the Mustang IV is 400$ and the V 500$ and they both have the fizz also... :roll:

If modelling on the "low end" is basically introducing artifacts, just raise the freaking price and make it good and fix the problems. Unless Fender wants to become the new "low end" trendy brand like Epiphone (which ironically does make very good guitars if you shop a little) and forfeit their "Legend/Big 3" status, which is in very good progress with their management of the Fizzgate.

But I am wasting my time, Fender obviously doesn't care and I am a guitar player that is too discerning. I am the problem after all, not the Mustang III amp I don't own any more (thank GOD!)...(yes this is irony)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:34 am
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I have had a Mustang III amp now for (2) weeks. So far, I have no fizz whatsoever.
Thankfully!

G


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:40 am
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Can this thread get closed now? No more actual debate about the fizz issue for the last few weeks, only people ranting about how the fizz issue is the worst thing in the world and the whole of Fender is to blame.

I can understand and talk with people that are sincerely disappointed and have something to add to the forums, but all this isn't contributing to anything in any way.

I'm gonna say it again: I acknowledge the fizz as being an issue that Fender should really look into more, but this is just pointless. If you don't have your Mustang any more, move on and stop tearing things from the context. Squier has nothing to do with this, nor does Blackstar.


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