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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:43 pm
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Roadie
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Regarding the Official Fender Announcement, it appears they are saying:

1. Yes, the fizz is there, but only under certain specific conditions (I'd like to know what they are, since mine fizzes all the time).
2. There is nothing they can--or maybe nothing they will--do about it.
3. It's insignificant and doesn't bother most people--you're still getting a lot for your money, so just try to ignore it.
4. Maybe someday there will be a fizz-free modeling amp, but this version of the Mustang is what it is, and that's the end of that.

Any other interpretations? The only thing that is certain about the Announcement is that it is certainly vague.


Last edited by cormorant on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:52 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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They lawyered up. They've been selling busted amps for months and now they're in Johnny Cochrane land. De Nile must be a river in Arizona. This is the product of the beancounters and the lawyers meeting with the suits. The product guys were nowhere to be found.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:02 pm
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:46 am
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Location: Chicago, IL
Didn't know there was an announcement so went looking:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=59203

My take:
1. There is no hope of a fix. i will have to find some other product that comes close
2. I don't believe the problem happens only "using certain settings and playing techniques" which means there should be settings where it doesn't happen. So what are the "non-fizz" settings? If you know what conditions cause it, why not tell us how to avoid it?
3. The I & II work fine, why not the III, IV, V?
4. They may quietly fix it going forward

Nice knowing all of you through this ordeal. I'm giving up on the Mustang for now and will enjoy building my Allen Sweet Spot. Good luck if you decide to stick it out.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:34 pm
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+1. Wise decision.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:01 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Fender has just created a terrific new marketing slogan for Mustang VI -X:

"Now...FIZZ-FREE!!!"


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:42 am
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cormorant wrote:
Regarding the Official Fender Announcement, it appears they are saying:

1. Yes, the fizz is there, but only under certain specific conditions (I'd like to know what they are, since mine fizzes all the time).
2. There is nothing they can--or maybe nothing they will--do about it.
3. It's insignificant and doesn't bother most people--you're still getting a lot for your money, so just try to ignore it.
4. Maybe someday there will be a fizz-free modeling amp, but this version of the Mustang is what it is, and that's the end of that.

Any other interpretations? The only thing that is certain about the Announcement is that it is certainly vague.


Yeah ... if you are the owner of a fizzy Mustang amp ... other than a luck of the draw warranty exchange ... they deceived ya ... took your money ... and told ya "oh well ... tough luck ... bugger off". It doesn't matter who says it or how nice they say it ... if the fizz can't or won't be fixed by Fender ... that's the bottom line ... they screwed ya.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:19 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:00 am
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Well, it looks like Fender has taken their official position...those of us that have already purchased the fizz-box are SOL. However, now that they have acknowledged the problem exists and turned their back on the Mustang customer base..It's time for the Mustang customer base to make potential buyers aware of this problem....Go to the major online retailers and post customer feedback regarding this issue and Fenders official stance of your SOL so that others that have not yet purchased can make an informed decision!!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:22 am
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 11:59 am
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With fall approaching I'm in decoy and goose call mode. Couple that with huge changes at work and I'm looking at a Mustang III purchase nest spring, that is if the fizz is worked out. I'll be checking this forum about every day out of keen interest. I remain hopeful. Regards, Bob


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:50 am
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i have a new element that indicate the problem on my mustang III is on the final section power amp + speaker ...
i have replicated the test to out by headphone and the fizz is not there but as i have to amplify my guitar synth roland gr33 , i have also connect it to the return input in the rear of amp...
well , the fizz is yet there even though it is more subtule .. if i'm not wrong at that point of circuit the pre-amp digital modelling section is bypassed to send the external signal directly to the power amp section and finally to the speaker.
So on my opinion we have a new element that supports the hypothesis the problem has not digital nature but analog nature caused by some kind of unshielded interference or similar.. i don't think the display is able to give enough interference to cause problems in power amp section.. the currents that flows in it are so bigger compared to those in preamp section.. usually also in Hi-FI equipments the weak ring of the chain is the
preamp section cause its very weak signals , voltages and amperages.
Besides of this, the power amp can't be digital (or at least not completely digital) because as we know digital stuffs are not able to generate serious output power but it must to be surely a transistors amp.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:56 am
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polishbroadcast wrote:
2. I don't believe the problem happens only "using certain settings and playing techniques" which means there should be settings where it doesn't happen. So what are the "non-fizz" settings? If you know what conditions cause it, why not tell us how to avoid it?
certain settings = CLEAN CHANNEL
playing techniques = HITTING THE LOW E STRING

So the "non-fizz" setting is to don't use your low e string "combined" with a clean channel...
Brilliant :evil:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:47 pm
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Henky wrote:
polishbroadcast wrote:
2. I don't believe the problem happens only "using certain settings and playing techniques" which means there should be settings where it doesn't happen. So what are the "non-fizz" settings? If you know what conditions cause it, why not tell us how to avoid it?
certain settings = CLEAN CHANNEL
playing techniques = HITTING THE LOW E STRING

So the "non-fizz" setting is to don't use your low e string "combined" with a clean channel...
Brilliant :evil:


No unfortunately is not just this...
i don't know if somebody other than me has hear it but the fizz happens also in higher strings than E bass.. of course particularly when you hits the notes in high E you are not so able to hear fizz because the frequency of that strange modulation appears to be shifted up .. so starts to become hardly hearable and less bothering.

and that's not all.. i have hear signs of that problems also using crunch sounds or low/middle gain overdrives ..
clearly you can notice it less because there is the noise caused by distorsion or saturation..


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:31 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Exactly. Not just one string and not just on clean sounds. It's just the OD noise masks the fizz.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:01 am
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I was actually considering buying a Mustang III, but obviously these issues kind of scare me off. Maybe I'll take my chances with a MII but I'm not sure yet.

However, I have a theory about what might be wrong.

Can any of you tell me if the poweramp stage is a class D amplifier? The tech specs mention nothing about it as far as I can see, but the overall light weight of the amps could suggest that we're dealing with class D power amplifiers.

I've got nothing against class D amps, just to make sure that doesn't get in the way. My bass amp is a 450 watt class D amp and I'm more than pleased with that. The thing is just that class D amps are way more finicky designs than normal solid state amps and they supposedly become more finicky the higher watt ratings you're aiming for.

My theory is that there's simply an inherent flaw in the power amp design that either makes the amp deteriorate on it's own or simply makes it a lot more susceptible to outside interference, "dirty" power supply, etc. That's why I think there is no solution offered by Fender as the only solution would be to replace the whole power amp stage with a new (and probably more expensive) design.

Now, to recap I'm only THEORIZING here and I'm not an electrical engineer or anything like that. Maybe it's not even a class D amp and in that case I'm just talking out my behind and have just wasted everybody two minutes reading this.

A little about class D amps: http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/12_amps_6.html


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:11 am
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Roadie
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Quote:
Now, to recap I'm only THEORIZING here and I'm not an electrical engineer or anything like that. Maybe it's not even a class D amp and in that case I'm just talking out my behind and have just wasted everybody two minutes reading this.

A little about class D amps: http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/12_amps_6.html


You're theory seems as good as any I've read. If the mustangs have a class D amp then there's lots of opportunity for what I hear and see as phase distortion in the fizz sound.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:29 am
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Henky, same here. Any clean preset or cleaned-up preset and any playing. An open string was the easiest way to hear it, but the fizz was present on everything. The second amp I had was worse than the first(both were III's). Take the fizz out this equation and the Mustang is one great amp. I still want one....bad! Bob


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