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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:45 am
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Aspiring Musician
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For those that might be interested, here's an example of a dead simple power amp (just one IC, 68 watts over 8 ohms and 104 watts over 4 ohms) that fits into a 8cm by 5cm board. The most expensive part is the IC of course... 8$ :)

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf ... 86_amp.pdf

Again the tricky part would be to identify the best possible integration using the existing mustang power supply and the best hookup with the mustang preamp. chances are it does fit into the mustang amp housing.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:19 pm
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:36 pm
Posts: 182
Oh, please. You're really suggesting that Mustang owners dremel out the power amp IC and wire in a home-brew substitute power amp module, and figure out how to wire in the interconnections and hope that it solves fizz? I'm sure we'll all be interested in your specific and detailed instructions.

That's not a viable solution. And it doesn't sound like you've done it. Do it, document it, and then owners can decide if it's something even remotely feasible. And what you propose totally voids Fenders 5 year warranty on things they actually will warranty. They don't warrant fizz, but they do warranty a lot of other problems that could occur.

I have a better idea. Buy a different amp that doesn't fizz. If you really like Fender's modeling, combine your new amp with a Fender Floor.


jedi2b wrote:
I was just looking today, given the artifacts seems to originate at the power amp section (I have seen M3 modded with an external power amp that corrected the issue) maybe, for the more adventurous, and given that Fender will not honor the warranty regarding the fizz, it should be feasible to come up with a small DIY mono power amp to replace the one that comes with the mustang.
Should not cost more than 40 bucks or so, maybe less.
The main issue would be opening the mustang and cutting out the power amp and rewiring of the master volume pot to the new power amp.

PS: Because I feel the deja-vu already, for the nay sayers, please don't be naive, Fender cannot correct a power amp issue with firmware and will not massively recall all the amps for a fix, particularly because this amp sells so well right now. If we don't come up with a solution nobody will.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:53 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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LOL, If I have to choose between curl up and cry, call my lawyer or find a technical solution to a problem I would choose the third option any day of the week.

You can be sure if my amp starts to fizz badly I will do something about it. Right now I hear some minor artifacts that are no worse than the artifacts you hear with any line 6 or digitech stuff. And I will not be the first to try to solve this, I saw two posts of people adding an external poweramp and been happy ever since, but it looked a bit clunky to me.

Regarding the warranty, if your amp is fizzing, how good is a warranty for an amp that is unplayable because of the fizz anyway?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:18 pm
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So when you find a technical solution that actually works, post back. My technical solution was to buy an amp that doesn't fizz. I'm guessing if and when your amp actually starts to fizz to the point where you can't stand it, your solution will be remarkably like mine. Since you can barely hear it and it doesn't bother you, I'm wondering what problem it is you are trying to solve?

People with badly fizzing amps who can't stand it have retreated to two solutions. Put up with it or get rid of it. If you have another tested solution that actually works, post it.

jedi2b wrote:
LOL, If I have to choose between curl up and cry, call my lawyer or find a technical solution to a problem I would choose the third option any day of the week.

You can be sure if my amp starts to fizz badly I will do something about it. Right now I hear some minor artifacts that are no worse than the artifacts you hear with any line 6 or digitech stuff. And I will not be the first to try to solve this, I saw two posts of people adding an external poweramp and been happy ever since, but it looked a bit clunky to me.

Regarding the warranty, if your amp is fizzing, how good is a warranty for an amp that is unplayable because of the fizz anyway?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:52 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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and you reasopn to post here is...? :roll:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:40 pm
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The same as yours...

jedi2b wrote:
and you reasopn to post here is...? :roll:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:17 am
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Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:58 am
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@brucefulton
You really are todays generation incarnate... "If it doesn't work, throw it away and buy a new one. Don't you dare try to fix or help other people." It haven't occured to you that for some people fixing things like this is interesting?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:46 pm
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That "loud volume to fix the problem" sounds a bit like an old boombox I have. Occasionally the amp doesn't output to one speaker. If I give it spikes of high volume sometimes it is revived, until the next time it decides to act up. I've been told it might be bad capacitors, but haven't verified it.


Last edited by mpr on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:29 pm
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It will be the most interesting when someone comes up with an actual working fizz fix. That would be helpful. So far, I'm not seeing actual workable alternatives. By all means, continue to try to figure it out.

What would really be helpful is if Fender were to disclose exactly what the problem is, since they have stated to people privately that they know what the problem is. That way, hobbyists could do something other than speculate. So, the first in line of those not fixing or helping, in my view, is Fender. And since a lot of the cheaper Fender stuff is warranty replace/do-not-repair, I'm guessing Fender is the one doing the most throwing away of stuff. You have to wonder why? I hope at least they are recycling responsibly.


Conan The Barbarian wrote:
@brucefulton
You really are todays generation incarnate... "If it doesn't work, throw it away and buy a new one. Don't you dare try to fix or help other people." It haven't occured to you that for some people fixing things like this is interesting?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:09 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:51 pm
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Here's a question that was asked a few times but not answered as far as I could see (89 some odd pages of mostly bickering? C'mon).

If you plug another modeller (G3/5, Line6 HDxxx, GT8/10/100, Mustang Floor, etc) into the effects return, does the fizz exist? I don't care about headphones, I don't care about effects send. I'm talking about the sound coming out of the speakers when the pre-amp is "replaced/bypassed" with another one.

Bottom line? At $400.00ish, the M-IV is an alright deal even if you take the preamp out of the equation. 2-12, stereo, decent wattage, looks like a real amp(not a powered pa speaker - where your paying the same price for a mono solution). But not such a great deal if the thing fizzes all over your tone.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:34 am
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Aspiring Musician
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DarthElvis wrote:
Here's a question that was asked a few times but not answered as far as I could see (89 some odd pages of mostly bickering? C'mon).

If you plug another modeller (G3/5, Line6 HDxxx, GT8/10/100, Mustang Floor, etc) into the effects return, does the fizz exist? I don't care about headphones, I don't care about effects send. I'm talking about the sound coming out of the speakers when the pre-amp is "replaced/bypassed" with another one.

Bottom line? At $400.00ish, the M-IV is an alright deal even if you take the preamp out of the equation. 2-12, stereo, decent wattage, looks like a real amp(not a powered pa speaker - where your paying the same price for a mono solution). But not such a great deal if the thing fizzes all over your tone.


My inquiring mind also wants to know this one. I am in the search of a good stereo power amp for my Fender Floor and Zoom G5. I had a Mustang V, but sold it before I did this test. Is the fizz from the pre-amp stage?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:09 pm
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I don't remember a specific post about trying it only as a power amp, but it's not the input/DSP stages. People didn't get the problem when using headphones, using the FX send and another power amp, and probably also USB output.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:04 pm
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Okay, would anyone be willing to try it? Even an old POD 2.0 would suffice to tell if it's an issue. It could be something in the way the pre-amp reacts with the power-amp. Like some kind of shielding issue or something( I don't know, I'm not an engineer) If nothing else, it would confirm once and for all that the power amp is the source of the problem.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:25 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Well, my amp does not fizz so it does not help much, but I use the power amp alone a lot without any issues, getting into it by the fx resturn connection.

Fo the people with a fizzing amp this would be a good test, to connect directly your guitar to the fx return and see if it fizzes. I tried mine (with some hot humbucker, guitar volume at 10) and it works fine.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:40 pm
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:31 am
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I just tried it, and the answer is: yes, with the guitar plugged directly into the Return jack of the FX Loop, the MIII still fizzes. The fizz is exactly the same as when plugged in to the regular input jack.


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