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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:33 am
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Hi all,
I just discovered this fender community and started to look for information about one of my candidate amps, Mustang 3. I was almost decided for it, but then, I read this about the fizz, I start checking youtube and hear an incredible noise sounding out of a Mustang3.
Then I see in last pages of it (impossible to read 74 pages) that Fender knows about the problem, but they refuse to fix it and they don't even fix/replace under warranty period?? Is that even possible?
Now i am very scared, could anyone, please, make a kind of "current status" post about the problem so I have extra information before deciding for the amp??
Thanks a lot in advance!!!
Best regards!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:15 am
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That is all the dark side of that thread...

As you know, only unsatisfied people complain in a forum.

So here is my point of view about that "fizz" issue.

I have a Mustang 3 for 2 years now and it is the best, versatile, powerful amp Ii have ever played.

I sold out all my pedals, my tube amp and keep only the M3. Only added a BBE sonic maximizer clone in the loop to feet my sound.

For my guitar skills and use (home player and some jam sessions with friends), that M3 is the best.
And I am sure that it can also be a great stage AMP.

I don't have the fizz, or I don't hear it.

Please, put my positive comment in the balance for your future buy, as it might represent the majority of M3 users.

And of course, try it before you buy it to make your own point of view.

Enjoy.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:43 am
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OK, I’ll try,

A synopsis of the last 77 pages…

It has been discovered that by setting the amp to a clean setting, usually the Twin, or one of the Deluxe models, turning the gain down low or off, and plucking a low note usually on the low end of the E, A, or D string, and letting the note ring out to the point of decay, on some amps you may hear the fizz sound as demonstrated on the youtube vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H3gFU6e7o

Here’s Fender’s official statement on the matter:

"Dear Fender Mustang Community,

We are aware of the various discussions regarding the “fizz” phenomenon, in which some Mustang amp users notice sound that they find undesirable. We researched the issue and found that under certain combined conditions, using certain settings and playing techniques, an artifact can be produced in Mustang III, IV and V amplifiers.

The simple truth is that while we were able to include great tones and many useful features into an extremely affordable box, within the vast array of sounds, some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation. Nevertheless, legions of Mustang amp users have proven and agree that the Mustang amplifier series delivers great value, versatility and sound.

As a forward-thinking company of musicians, we always welcome all consumer opinion and insight that helps drive our constant development of innovative new products. Technology moves fast, and so we continue to develop products that offer guitarists newer and better tools to make music.

Best Regards,
The Fender Tech Support Lab"

Now this thread started out with good intentions. To open a dialog about the existence of this sonic anomaly to see if there was anything that can be done about it. However, Fender has remained completely silent on the matter except for their official statement. Which has caused a lot of speculation, and thus far no resolution.

Several posters to this forum have reported that the fizz on their amps was significant enough to their ears that they felt the amp was unbearable to use (who Fender calls “discerning listeners”). Those same members will try to convince you that Mustang amps are defective and that Fender’s handling of the matter is at least shady if not outright criminal. Those kinds of posts along with Fenders silence has fueled much debate and raised a lot of hype that has gone on now for 77 pages.

On the other side you have satisfied owners who are either unaware of the fizz, don’t play the amp in a manner that induces fizz, find it to be insignificant enough that they are willing to overlook it, or are otherwise unaffected by the fizz. (These are who Fender calls “legions of Mustang amp users”.)

Yes, the youtube sample sounds bad. But that is a sound sample designed to induce the fizz. In most cases, most Mustang owners will not hear fizz, even on fizzy settings, when playing the guitar in a guitar playing manner. Of course it may be possible that there are some extreme cases of fizz. So in those rare cases you would be out of luck if you go past your 30 day return policy.

I’ve tried to remain as neutral as possible up to this point. The following is mostly my opinion.

Consider that these are digital amps. They simulate the tone of “real” amps and they do a very good job of it... but they are not perfect. However, feature for feature and tone quality for tone quality they are still ahead of the competition. (The less than $300 price tag is icing on the cake.) I can dial in great tone on any amp model – clean, crunchy, or dirty. The Fender amp models are wonderful in the way that they simulate warm overdive and natural feel - something the competition still falls short on. And that alone for me is what keeps me hanging on, despite any shortcomings that I can find with the amp. I can induce fizz on my amp but don’t consider it an issue because I simply don’t hear it unless its induced in the manner prescribed above (which is not how I play). I wanted 3 things when I was shopping around: Quality of sound (at any volume), versatility, and bang for the buck. In short – best guitar related $300 I ever spent.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:07 pm
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Excellent summary, Scorpaeon.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:31 pm
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@juaaslo

Re the MIII/IV/V ... aka those that are claimed to fizz ...

As someone who generally likes the Mustang but recommends that players who value their clean tones stay away ... this is my opinion:

They don't all fizz ... some do ... some don't. There is no guarantee either way.

For those that fizz ... some do it from the beginning ... some do it days/weeks/months later. There is no set rule.

For those that fizz ... on some the fizz is faint ... on some it's very obvious ... on some it's in-between. There is no set rule.

For those that fizz ... it's best heard on clean settings, lower notes and when played slowly. Most folk say you hear it most upon note decay. But that is not always the case. In some Mustangs it can be heard on clean settings, all notes (not just low notes) and as soon as the note is picked.

For those that fizz ... the faster you play or the dirtier your tone the more fizz will be masked. Folk who play like that may never hear it.

For those that fizz ... there is no fix to date ... not from Fender ... not from users.

For those that fizz ... Fender may not allow you to trade out or cover it under warranty service. Early on in the problem Fender did ... but most recent reports indicate Fender will do nothing. If that is the case ... you are out your money and are stuck with an amp you may not like and may not want to live with.

Aside from the fizz issue ... the Mustang is a nifty amp ... FUSE allows it to do a lot.

If you like the features offered by FUSE ... or play dirty ... or shred ... or could care less about clean tones ... I don't see much to worry about if you purchase a Mustang.

If you value clean tones ... or if you are serious about your cleans ... regardless of other features offered by the amp ... I'd stay away from the Mustang. Although the presence and degree of fizz is uncertain ... and you may luck out and get one that will never fizz ... IMO if it fizzes and you are this category of player ... you may end up not liking the amp and Fender may not stand behind their warranty ... and who needs that kind of hassle.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:37 pm
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Noting that this is generally a fizz thread ... I'm curious ... for owners of the Mustang Floor model ... what do you think of it? Any fizz on your cleans? Any negatives? Best thing since whatever?

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:45 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
Here’s Fender’s official statement on the matter:

"Dear Fender Mustang Community,

We are aware of the various discussions regarding the “fizz” phenomenon, in which some Mustang amp users notice sound that they find undesirable. We researched the issue and found that under certain combined conditions, using certain settings and playing techniques, an artifact can be produced in Mustang III, IV and V amplifiers.

The simple truth is that while we were able to include great tones and many useful features into an extremely affordable box, within the vast array of sounds, some discerning listeners may consider the smallest sonic variable a limitation. Nevertheless, legions of Mustang amp users have proven and agree that the Mustang amplifier series delivers great value, versatility and sound.

As a forward-thinking company of musicians, we always welcome all consumer opinion and insight that helps drive our constant development of innovative new products. Technology moves fast, and so we continue to develop products that offer guitarists newer and better tools to make music.

Best Regards,
The Fender Tech Support Lab"




I don't know where you found that statement, but I suspect it's well hidden on the Fender site somewhere.

That should be posted on the Fender Mustang product page and on the Guitar Center and Sweetwater Mustang Amp pages to let potential customers know what they are getting... instead they allow customers to continue to purchase an item that has a major design problem. Leo would be ashamed of this action by the company that bears his name today.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:46 pm
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Tony65 wrote:
I don't know where you found that statement, but I suspect it's well hidden on the Fender site somewhere.

That should be posted on the Fender Mustang product page and on the Guitar Center and Sweetwater Mustang Amp pages to let potential customers know what they are getting... instead they allow customers to continue to purchase an item that has a major design problem. Leo would be ashamed of this action by the company that bears his name today.


Well ... it's not hidden per se ... it's just hard to find due to the volume of posts and subjects now populating the forum.

It comes from here ... viewtopic.php?f=27&t=59203
It was posted 7/28/11 by Fender

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:24 am
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Wow, I didn't expect so many answers.
Thanks a lot for it guys!!!
Scorpaeon, incredible synopsis. I appreciate it and made me convinced about getting this amp!!!!
I am aware, as you comment, of unhappy people. It is true that someone unhappy, makes a lot of "noise", and it is true that Fender should try to please this kind of customers, because a company should always try to enhance customers satisfaction. I consider this wave so I will try to travel to a nearest city where I can test Mustang before purchasing, so At least I know it doesn't fizz from the very beginning. But i am taking the risk because amps like this, with so many features, so versatile and for this money, it is a real oportunity.

As stated, thanks a lot to all of you for your input, and I hope to comment soon that my Mustang doesn't fizz at all at the beginning!!!

Thanks, thanks, and thanks :)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:42 am
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Just checking in to say that I have the same phaser-sound-issue with my brand new Mustang III. I listened to the soundclips in the first post, and that's exactly what I get too. I've upgraded to firmware 1.9 (that was the first thing I did). I don't hear it with headphones plugged in.

Dear Fender, please fix. :-)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:32 pm
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bskauge wrote:
Just checking in to say that I have the same phaser-sound-issue with my brand new Mustang III. I listened to the soundclips in the first post, and that's exactly what I get too. I've upgraded to firmware 1.9 (that was the first thing I did). I don't hear it with headphones plugged in.

Dear Fender, please fix. :-)


It takes courrage to say what the majority refuses to listen. This "fizz" you hear is real and not a figment of your imagination. This is a real problem, chronic and once installed no longer disappears.

Unfortunalty anything that can go wrong, will go wrong again, sooner or later, if nothing is done. That's Murphy's law.

In the meantime, go get another one, and another, and another until you get one that, at least, doesn't have the issue right out of the box. Beside this issue, those are wonderful tools for the money.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:14 pm
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Can't speak for everyone who owns a Mustang...but after owning my M-4 for the last 20 months, It's the Best amp on the market in my opinion for covering a lot of ground very very very fast when gigging out :shock: I also own an American Made 2002 Hot Rod Deville 212 and a 2011-12 Blues Tweed Deluxe..both of these Tube amps are superb..but the Mustang is King :wink:


Jammin with my M-4 in the Beer joints..no Fizz, but a lot of sizzle :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAIOY117t3A&feature=relmfu

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:16 pm
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Scorpaeon wrote:
Hey thompal, in case you've missed the pattern that goes on throughout this entire thread... there's 4 or maybe 5 people who feel they've been burned by Fender and refuse to let go of any argument that doesn't end with Fender getting burned right back. They're entitled to their opinions, so be it. These tit for tat arguments, mostly butting heads against those same 4 or 5 people, are the bulk of what have perpetuated this thread for 76 pages now, and are what keeps the thread from ever reaching a solution to the "problem" or just letting the whole damn thing die.


Hmm, the bulk of the "defense" of fizzing mustangs comes from the same 2 or 3 cheerleaders who refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem and feel obligated to return here time after time to defend Fender's honor. I haven't posted anything except in response to new questions for several months. But I will certainly continue to respond when the same mostly 2 cheerleaders attempt to minimize what for many people is a serious problem for musicians playing some styles and settings. Those people should fully understand that the fizz can vary from amp to amp from minimal to severe, can be intolerable on some, may appear well after any normal retail return period, and that Fender won't replace or repair a fizzing amp on warranty. You can cheerlead all you want and it doesn't change those facts. Yes, there are many satisfied customers. But potential customers need to know that if they become unsatisfied due to this issue, Fender won't fix it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:55 am
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brucefulton wrote:
Hmm, the bulk of the "defense" of fizzing mustangs comes from the same 2 or 3 cheerleaders who refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem and feel obligated to return here time after time to defend Fender's honor. I haven't posted anything except in response to new questions for several months. But I will certainly continue to respond when the same mostly 2 cheerleaders attempt to minimize what for many people is a serious problem for musicians playing some styles and settings. Those people should fully understand that the fizz can vary from amp to amp from minimal to severe, can be intolerable on some, may appear well after any normal retail return period, and that Fender won't replace or repair a fizzing amp on warranty. You can cheerlead all you want and it doesn't change those facts. Yes, there are many satisfied customers. But potential customers need to know that if they become unsatisfied due to this issue, Fender won't fix it.


+1

Ditto ... exactly ...

KenB


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:19 pm
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brucefulton wrote:
Hmm, the bulk of the "defense" of fizzing mustangs comes from the same 2 or 3 cheerleaders who refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem and feel obligated to return here time after time to defend Fender's honor. I haven't posted anything except in response to new questions for several months. But I will certainly continue to respond when the same mostly 2 cheerleaders attempt to minimize what for many people is a serious problem for musicians playing some styles and settings.Those people should fully understand that the fizz can vary from amp to amp from minimal to severe, can be intolerable on some, may appear well after any normal retail return period, and that Fender won't replace or repair a fizzing amp on warranty. You can cheerlead all you want and it doesn't change those facts. Yes, there are many satisfied customers. But potential customers need to know that if they become unsatisfied due to this issue, Fender won't fix it.

+ 1/2

I'd just revise that one sentence a little. Remove bold and insert:
But I will certainly continue to respond when the same mostly 2 cheerleaders attempt to explain that it's only a minor issue and its only potentially serious for a very small percentage of musicians playing some very specific styles and settings.


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