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Post subject: Mustang Amps
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:12 pm
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I'm currently on the market for a guitar amp. I really like the Mustang series because it is an amp and effects pedal in one, saving me money. I'm just having a little trouble deciding which one. The III and IV aren't much different besides 50w more power and $100 more in price. But will I really need that 50 extra watts? Will that make a big improvement? Still new to guitars and even newer to electrics so sorry if my question is dumb. :D


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:42 pm
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If your sound requires stereo and a huge wall of shimmer then go for the IV. Otherwise the III covers you fine for everything else. And it's lighter.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:42 am
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I have a IV. Actually the IV is $200 more. The stereo effects really aren't that noticeable because the speakers are very close together. As far as the extra 50 watts, I dunno. depends on what you are wanting to use it for. I teach music in an elementary school and that is where it is used 90% of the time, so for me it is way more than enough amp. I had the extra money so I went with the IV.

I also play live at my church and we mic the amps and run them through a PA so as to bring the overall volume down. Right now my MIV is at church and I'm trying it out live to see how I like it. So far I do like using it live. If I was to do it again I might opt for the III simply for the fact that it is much lighter and 100 watts is plenty of power for my needs.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 am
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I'm thinking buy a Mustang II Amplifier, but I have a question about the clean sound quality: is it the same quality like Fonder Frontman Series? What can you tell me?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:13 am
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If it were me, I'd go for the MIII. 100W is more than plenty and as has already been stated, the speakers being so close together won't allow the stereo effects to really shine. I have the MI, and recently hooked it up to a 1x12 cab with a Warehouse ET-65 speaker in it, and I get some really nice tones like that.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:15 am
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I own a Mustang III and play in my church's contemporary service. As I have learned to tweak the parameters, the sound is awesome! (and gets better each week as I continue to fine tune things and discover new sounds.) The extra wattage, the ease of programmng with the LCD display, the included 2 button footswitch, better speaker, etc make it very much worth the extra $100 over the MII.

Then as you order it, also get the 4 Button footswitch. You can probably get a store to price-match to $39.99. Check internet pricing at Musicians friend, Guitar center, Sweetwater.com, Sam Ash, etc....Then dicker for best price.

If you really need stereo effects (most people don't) or a little extra power for headroom, and can afford another $200 over the MIII, try the MIV. I played it in the store and it has a little more low-end and power. It comes with the 4 button footswitch, but I don't know that it would be worth the extra $200 over the MIII, at least not in my case. If I need more power, I will mike the amp or use the effects loop output and feed directly into the sound system.

Take your time and choose what you will be really satisfied with. Don't let a few bucks keep you from investing in the amp you will use for a number of years.... An extra $100 spread over 5 years is $20 per year. That is one pizza per year. But don't buy more than you really need out of greed. I lugged around a 110 Pound, 100 watt Ampeg VT-22 for 34 years and never turned it up over a quarter volume. But I "HAD" to have all that power because someone told me that I needed 100 watts. NOT!

Have fun!


Good luck.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:18 am
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There are some advantages to the Mustang IV:

1. It comes with the 4-button pedal; the III only comes with the 2-button pedal. For gigging particularly, the 4-button is essential.

2. Irrespective of the extra wattage, a 2x12" amp will deliver a much bigger, fuller tone than a 1x12" amp, even at non-gigging levels

3. The stereo ability - but as mentioned, the speakers are too close together for any noticeable stereo effect.

Disadvantages are:

1. More expensive - the extra cost is only really justifiable if you are a gigging guitarist

2. Much bigger and heavier

3. Overkill for bedroom playing

The Mustang III is an excellent package with a decent quality Celestion speaker. However, a BIG omission in my opinion (& I have brought this to Fender's attention) is that it needs an external speaker out. Because the III is sat squarely between the II (bedroom/small club amp) and the IV (definitely a gigging rig) it's going to be used by players that will use it at home but want gigging flexibility too.

The problem for gigging/rehearsing is not the 100w output - the III is one loud amp. But there are limitations with ANY 1x12" amp that can have a tendency to sound 'boxy' at volume and lack fullness - it's at gigging levels that you really gain the benefit of a 2x12" (or more) layout. An 8 ohm & 16 ohm switchable external speaker selector will give the important flexibility for those that don't usually need a big 2x12" combo, to connect to a 2x12" or (even better!) a 4x12" cab (even if this disconnects the internal speaker) if they need to.

All the Mustangs would also benefit from a line out that will enable players to connect their amps directly through the main board/PA system. Currently, without these the Mustang III is too limiting and is a big reason why I returned it. I liked it very much, but I couldn't use it instead of my main rig.

Now, I appreciate that a good tech could mod the amp, but this is extra cost and would void the warranty. Fender can add these changes much more cost effectively in the factory and whilst it would add to the price, the Mustang III in particular would really benefit and appeal to a much wider audience - just like me.

Now, you haven't mentioned the Mustang V. This is arguably the most versatile Mustang because it too comes with the 4-button pedal, is 2x75w stereo but can be used with pretty much any speaker cab (providing it can take the volume). It's also the same price as the III. Downsides are that its fairly big, needs to be connected with speaker cables (extra cost) and by definition you need a speaker cab too. But you're not 'trapped' with the speakers that come in the IV combo - you can use any cab you like ....yours, a friends, the cabs at the rehearsal rooms or even gig venue. And because it's not a valve rig you don't need a speaker load eg with headphones. AND if you use it with two stereo wired cabs (eg like my Vox AD212) you can separate the speakers for bonafide stereo sound with proper separation!

Just my thoughts - & if anyone from Fender is looking in...PLEASE consider adding speaker & line-outs next time round!

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:21 pm
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As always, Rockcat, your comments are excellent.

I give a hearty "Amen!" to the external speaker jack. That would add value to the amp. I would love to hear my MIII through a quality 4x12" cab, even though I don't own one and it would be overkill in my venue!

The 4-button switch is a great addition. Like you, I don't understand why Fender did not include it as standard with the MIII. But they DID include the 2-button, and I would have probably bought which ever one they didn't include. I now have both and find them very useful together. So the 4-button cost me US$39.99 and the 2-button would probably have cost about US$20 so that is about a $20 upgrade.

I agree that the 2x12" has more "guts" on the low end. but as you said, it is a lot bigger and heavier. Life, of course, is about trade-offs. I almost went for the M-IV but the extra cost and larger size nixed it.

Yes...A line-out AFTER the effects loop would be a great addition. Perhaps using an XLR/balanced connector for instant hook-up to a sound system. I have seen this in other amps and it almost swayed me to another brand.

I also agree that the Mustang V is awesome!. If I were looking for something a lot larger, and could afford twice the price, that would be my fantasy. The V-head and a quality 4x12 would sing some serious stuff.

But for the price and my needs, and due to the weight and size, I am very satisfied with the MIII. But still dreaming..... <grin>


Rockcat wrote:
There are some advantages to the Mustang IV:

1. It comes with the 4-button pedal; the III only comes with the 2-button pedal. For gigging particularly, the 4-button is essential.

2. Irrespective of the extra wattage, a 2x12" amp will deliver a much bigger, fuller tone than a 1x12" amp, even at non-gigging levels

3. The stereo ability - but as mentioned, the speakers are too close together for any noticeable stereo effect.

Disadvantages are:

1. More expensive - the extra cost is only really justifiable if you are a gigging guitarist

2. Much bigger and heavier

3. Overkill for bedroom playing

The Mustang III is an excellent package with a decent quality Celestion speaker. However, a BIG omission in my opinion (& I have brought this to Fender's attention) is that it needs an external speaker out. Because the III is sat squarely between the II (bedroom/small club amp) and the IV (definitely a gigging rig) it's going to be used by players that will use it at home but want gigging flexibility too.

The problem for gigging/rehearsing is not the 100w output - the III is one loud amp. But there are limitations with ANY 1x12" amp that can have a tendency to sound 'boxy' at volume and lack fullness - it's at gigging levels that you really gain the benefit of a 2x12" (or more) layout. An 8 ohm & 16 ohm switchable external speaker selector will give the important flexibility for those that don't usually need a big 2x12" combo, to connect to a 2x12" or (even better!) a 4x12" cab (even if this disconnects the internal speaker) if they need to.

All the Mustangs would also benefit from a line out that will enable players to connect their amps directly through the main board/PA system. Currently, without these the Mustang III is too limiting and is a big reason why I returned it. I liked it very much, but I couldn't use it instead of my main rig.

Now, I appreciate that a good tech could mod the amp, but this is extra cost and would void the warranty. Fender can add these changes much more cost effectively in the factory and whilst it would add to the price, the Mustang III in particular would really benefit and appeal to a much wider audience - just like me.

Now, you haven't mentioned the Mustang V. This is arguably the most versatile Mustang because it too comes with the 4-button pedal, is 2x75w stereo but can be used with pretty much any speaker cab (providing it can take the volume). It's also the same price as the III. Downsides are that its fairly big, needs to be connected with speaker cables (extra cost) and by definition you need a speaker cab too. But you're not 'trapped' with the speakers that come in the IV combo - you can use any cab you like ....yours, a friends, the cabs at the rehearsal rooms or even gig venue. And because it's not a valve rig you don't need a speaker load eg with headphones. AND if you use it with two stereo wired cabs (eg like my Vox AD212) you can separate the speakers for bonafide stereo sound with proper separation!

Just my thoughts - & if anyone from Fender is looking in...PLEASE consider adding speaker & line-outs next time round!

Rich :wink:

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1976 Alvarez Acoustic w/fishbine pickup; '98 American Series Strat (custom rewired); Modded Gibson Les Paul.
Mustang III; Crate v33 2-12; Raven G20; Digitech RP-2000; Morley Bad Horsie 2; various Danelectric stomps ...


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:12 pm
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While Rockcat makes some great points, I disagree with his assertion that gigging with a 1x12 combo sacrifices tonal quality. True, nothing sounds like a 4x12 cab except a 4x12 cab, but I have both 1x12 and 2x12 cabs, and unless I needed two speakers to handle the output wattage, I'd probably gig with the 1x12...the difference in sound quality would not be worth the extra size and weight of a 2x12 cab.

In fact, when I was gigging 10 years ago, me and the other guitarist both used 1x12 combos. Both were mic'd with very good results!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:15 pm
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+1 on the MIII for gigging, and the 100 watts is really honest RMS watts, solid state though they may be. It's about at 60-tube-watt HRD level volume-wise.

More and more bands are touring with 1-12s in the backline. Including Santana. Clapton just uses his 40-watt 2-12. Stevie Winwood has got his Super-Sonic 60.

Less is more. Stamp out tinnitus.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:25 pm
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I have the mustang V head and i use a 4x12 line 6 spider III stereo cab and the mustang sounds real good with it,you can most likely find a used spider II or III 4x12 cab for around 150.00 and your total cost would be about 450.00 if you choose this option and you will have a nice half stack for less then 500.00.note:i had to rewire my spider 4x12 cab for true stereo for it to work with my mustang V head,i posted a few months back about how to do it.i'am sure other 4x12 stereo cabs will also work if they are wired in true stereo(each 1/4" left and right input jack has to be wired independently to each side of the top and bottom speakers in the 4x12 cab)and also each input should be 8 ohms(do not use any 4 ohm 4x12 cab with a mustang V head,only a 8 ohm true stereo cab.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:35 pm
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I bought the Mustang II when it first came out - you had only the coice between the I and the II. When the rest of the line came out I went whole hog.

Image

While I like the M II for Music Room practice and even for small gigs, if I really want to romp, I plug into the M V. And I really like the 100 presets and the much nicer display. I like to keep things in sets, so I dropped the extra cash for the Mustang 4-12 bin.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:40 pm
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Muleya wrote:
While Rockcat makes some great points, I disagree with his assertion that gigging with a 1x12 combo sacrifices tonal quality. True, nothing sounds like a 4x12 cab except a 4x12 cab, but I have both 1x12 and 2x12 cabs, and unless I needed two speakers to handle the output wattage, I'd probably gig with the 1x12...the difference in sound quality would not be worth the extra size and weight of a 2x12 cab.

In fact, when I was gigging 10 years ago, me and the other guitarist both used 1x12 combos. Both were mic'd with very good results!


I think you misread and/or misinterpreted my post which was nothing to do with tonal quality. I said:

Quote:
But there are limitations with ANY 1x12" amp that can have a tendency to sound 'boxy' at volume and lack fullness


Boxiness isn't a tone issue per se - it's about the acoustic dynamics of a smaller cabinet enclosure with a single speaker. In a 2x12" combo you get 'reinforcement' by the speakers output interacting, within a bigger overall enclosure. The result is not just more volume (more air being moved) but a fuller 'bigger' more '3D' sound that helps to spread your sound more effectively through the mix.

Just to be clear I'm talking about amps being used 'straight' - and NOT being miked up. Here, a single 12" speaker doesn't matter because by definition you're hearing the amp through the PA's big speakers - so what you're hearing is a single 12" speaker being output as 2,4, 6 or 8 speakers depending on your PA set-up! Now, if you compare your 1x12" amps STRAIGHT (un-miked) with the equivalent 2x12" combo version you'll immediately hear, regardless of how loud the amp is, the 'boxiness' I'm referring to. It's simply to do with acoustic-dynamics.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:28 pm
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Lack of bottom end and low-mids can be a GOOD thing in a band and in a mix. I've worked with some of the best producers and engineers in the business and one of the first things they do in a mix is to pull out low end and low-mids on the guitars. Cleans things up in hurry and opens up the sonic space and dynamics.

Bottom end on guitars sounds great solo. Engineers/producers hate it in mixes. Ends up as mud. What they will do is get the bass to double parts tightly and get that matched to your power riffs and rhythm parts--that adds a lot of punch and gives guitars the impression of hugeness without mud.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amps
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:21 am
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Rockcat wrote:
Boxiness isn't a tone issue per se - it's about the acoustic dynamics of a smaller cabinet enclosure with a single speaker. In a 2x12" combo you get 'reinforcement' by the speakers output interacting, within a bigger overall enclosure. The result is not just more volume (more air being moved) but a fuller 'bigger' more '3D' sound that helps to spread your sound more effectively through the mix.

Just to be clear I'm talking about amps being used 'straight' - and NOT being miked up. Here, a single 12" speaker doesn't matter because by definition you're hearing the amp through the PA's big speakers - so what you're hearing is a single 12" speaker being output as 2,4, 6 or 8 speakers depending on your PA set-up! Now, if you compare your 1x12" amps STRAIGHT (un-miked) with the equivalent 2x12" combo version you'll immediately hear, regardless of how loud the amp is, the 'boxiness' I'm referring to. It's simply to do with acoustic-dynamics.

Rich :wink:


I hear what you're saying. In my defense, when I hear the term "boxiness", I hear that as a tonal description...however, I understand now this is not what you meant.

However, I still stick by the jist of my post. I'm perfectly comfortable playing a 1x12 in a gig situation, mic'd or not. Not to say I'd never take anything larger, it would probably depend on my mood and energy level. However, if I was gigging and had roadies, I'd very likely be playing stacks!! :lol:


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