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Post subject: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:45 am
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I've just unpacked the Mustang III and have gone through each of the pre-sets with my Daphne Blue Strat. I haven't yet done any editing or loaded the FUSE software.

I was really looking forward to hearing this amp, and I was very impressed by the Fender video but I have to say that my first impressions are that I'm decidedly underwhelmed. :( The tones from my Vox AD120VTX with BBE Sonic Stomp and EQ in the FX loop are way better and much more tube like.

I've got 30 days to return the amp and although I need to be fair and spend more time with the amp, right now I'm not impressed enough to keep it. I have 30 days so I'll certainly play it some more and do some tweaking, and I know that factory pre-sets aren't the best thing to go on. But I'm very experienced with both modeling amps and valve amps and so far the 'feel' isn't right.

I would stress that the above is only my immediate 'out of the box' impressions. I'll keep y'all posted of course, and perhaps my view will change as I tweak patches.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:04 am
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I find that the Mustang doesn't really come alive until you've tweaked it with the Fuse software. It also seems that the amp models' feel are set to a fairly neutral state. Fortunately, unlike other companies, Fender has given us users the option to change that with the Sag and Bias controls. You can make the amps tighter or looser - your choice. I'm an old fart and got used to the loose spongy feel of old Deluxes, Princetons and Vibroluxes. Can't stand the feel of most new amps - too abrupt in their response to pick attack. Great for metal but not so good for me.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:48 am
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It's certainly not a bad amp by any stretch of the imagination, & you're right about experimenting with the amp characteristics.

I suppose I've been spoilt with the AD120VTX as IMHO with the exception of the Hughes & Kettner Zentera, it was arguably the best modeling amp ever made, and the valve-reactor design that utilises the 2x12AX7 in the power-stage really makes it feel much more like a valve amp than other modelers out there.

I've tweaked some more (straight from the amp so far) and to be fair broadly I find the Mustang is reasonably comparable to my Vox AD120VTX. I particularly like the UK80's model which is a little tighter than the VTX. Bearing in mind that the Blue series Valvetronix first came out in 2001, I was amazed at just how well it compares to the more 'state of the art' modeling in the Mustang. I suppose I was hoping the Mustang would blow my Valvetronix rig away, but it honestly doesn't although it's a more tweakable animal.

And yes the III does sound a little boxy compared to the VTX, but that's to be expected. A 1x12" can't compete with a 4x12" rig, and I liked the III for its portability - so that's fine & par for the course. Judging it as a 1x12", I'd say Fender's choice of the speaker is pretty decent and it wouldn't need changing out.

However, my comparison perhaps isn't entirely a fair one because I'm comparing the Mustang III to my VTX with BBE Sonic stomp & EQ in the FX loop. So, if I think of the Mustang III as a portable all-in-one version of my VTX that doesn't need external FX, and accepting the 1x12" comparative boxiness as a trade-off for the portability, the Mustang III doesn't seem to be a bad solution for what I'm looking for. 'Deep editing' and firmware upgrade may reap dividends so I'll be looking at this tomorrow.

I've heard that nasty 'trail' sound commented on here - I would add that the new Valvetronix VT+ has something not totally dis-similar. I'll see if a firmware upgrade fixes the issue.

At the moment the jury is out, but I'll tweak & keep an open mind. Ironically, I've actually been more impressed with some of the Marshall Models than I have been with the Fender's - Having AB'd the VTX's Bassman, 1x12 Tweed and Blackface models with the Mustang equivalent (& I used the straight amp models here, no FX) I was very pleasantly surprised at just how well these still stand up. I suppose it's a compliment to Vox that it's modeling was ahead of its time back in 2001.

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:55 am
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Take it back then........must be some bad MIII's out there


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:26 pm
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I agree. You should take it back if your not happy and be done with it. I love my stang.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:40 pm
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lesbeat wrote:
I agree. You should take it back if your not happy and be done with it. I love my stang.


ya i originally got the MII and took it back to Guitar Center (no questions asked by the way) and got the MIII because i wanted to change the settings on the fly and works out great for me. No fizz no buzz no tailend distortion so must be bad ones out there.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:45 pm
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I've got some time, so I'd like to give it a comprehensive trial. I've also got to take into account that the speaker is new & needs breaking in too. :wink:

Update - OK, my journey of discovery continues to unfold! First thing I'd say to anyone trying out this amp - ignore the presets. There are a small handful that are decent but most are overdone with effects.

Most importantly, I'm beginning to understand the real secret to getting good tone with this amp - you have to experiment with the sag, bias, and speaker cabs, as well as completely resetting the factory preset EQ's to give a fuller tone. Too many of the factory presets are thin sounding whereas the 'real' amps have more body and a fuller tone. With only a single 12" speaker, the trick is to try & make it sound as near a 2x12" for the bigger amps as possible.

I'm slowly getting there and, similar to the Valvetronix amps, the Mustangs aren't 'plug 'n play' - at least, not for anyone that's owned or played the real amps. I think a lot has to do with your frame of reference and experience. I can certainly see how some folk moving up from an 'average' amp might be 'wowed' by the Mustang - ditto, I can see how other players like me might not be won over straight away but will need to tweak to discover if the amp is for them. The Mustang III is certainly growing on me, and using my AD120VTX and Laney VC30-210 as a reference point, I'm beginning to find some really nice tones in there.

The Fender demo vid presented by Damon had the amp miked up, and that's clear for all to see - but it's now clear to me that these tones have been EQ'd and is not a fair reflection of what you hear straight from the amps 12" speaker - at least not based upon the settings being shown.

I'm not back at work until Tuesday, so I have some time to invest in tweaking and discovering whether the Mustang is for me.

Re FUSE software, as far as I'm aware with the Mustang III, everything is available straight from the amps LCD display - so, unlike Mustang I & II, there is no deep editing & thus (aside from aesthetics) there's no need for me to load and connect FUSE. As I'm on 30-day approval, I don't want to open the CD package in case I decide to return the amp. If I'm mistaken, please put me straight. And presumably I can load FUSE down and the latest firmware upgrades, straight from the Fender site anyway?

Best

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:45 pm
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Rockcat wrote:
Re FUSE software, as far as I'm aware with the Mustang III, everything is available straight from the amps LCD display - so, unlike Mustang I & II, there is no deep editing & thus (aside from aesthetics) there's no need for me to load and connect FUSE. As I'm on 30-day approval, I don't want to open the CD package in case I decide to return the amp. If I'm mistaken, please put me straight. And presumably I can load FUSE down and the latest firmware upgrades, straight from the Fender site anyway?


The only thing I'm aware of that has to be done through FUSE is to arbitrarily choose stomp (pre) or rack (post) effects. Though you can view the effects order on the LCD display, I haven't stumbled across any way to configure the placement using only the on-amp controls.

But, you're right, you can download all the software, so no need to break open the CD "shrink-wrap" (in fact, the bundled software is likely dated anyway).

Oh, and of course (how could I forget...), using FUSE, you can choose cool colors for your stomp boxes. 8)

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:51 am
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One secret I learned somewhere on here was to turn OFF the speaker cab simulation on the clean Fender amp models, and re-tweak the EQ and options to the real on board speaker. I just ordered a Jensen Jet Tornado speaker to try in mine.

I quickly found pretty amazing clean and slightly driven Fender tones using this method. Trying to get higher gain crunch sounds that aren't digital fizzy, is harder. I have a handful of gigs and rehearsals where I don't want to lug my Bogner Ecstasys, so I'm shooting for something close to the blue channel crunch. I don't think it's possible with the M3, but I'm still working on it.

I did put an old Ibanez graphic EQ in the fx loop and just dipping 2-3dB at 6.4k takes the edge off the digital nasties in the high end.

I will say that I don't know why ALL modeling amps come with this pile of god-awful high gain presets dripping with fx and digital fizz. I was totally ready to return the amp myself, until I really got in and tweaked.

Besides the cab simulation tip I mentioned, another reason I decided to keep it, was my A/B comparison test to my real Super-Sonic 60. I was able to get them sounding almost identical, which is pretty amazing really. At lower volumes, I actually liked the M3 version better. But getting loud, I find the M3 gets harsh in the upper mids and highs, while the real deal smooths out nicely. Hopefully, the Jensen speaker will make some positive improvement in this area in the M3

Over the years I've tried the Tonelabs, Valvetronix, SpiderValves, and Peavey Vypyr, and all were returned within a few days. The M3 is the first modeling amp that I can actually see using on a professional level.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:57 pm
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Amen, Kyle Ahsley!

I also discovered that little Cab Sim off secret about a week ago. The only caveat is that you then can't use USB to record the slightly dirty sounds. You'll have to mic it.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:05 pm
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I absolutely love what I can do with my Mustang III. I will say that I spent a good two weeks tweaking and downloading and adjusting the presets, as well as starting from scratch with some of the open channels (90—99), and have come up with 12 presets that I use with my band. I have so much diversity at my fingertips here…no more sloppy stomp boxes. The only thing I need really is the four button switch to use in tandem with the two button to make it a perfect scenario. The factory presets are thin sounding, they really need to be tweaked. But once you find your sound, it’s amazing.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III - First Impressions
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:43 pm
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"I will say that I don't know why ALL modeling amps come with this pile of god-awful high gain presets dripping with fx and digital fizz. I was totally ready to return the amp myself, until I really got in and tweaked."

I do. At least on Fender modelers. Shane Nicholas. He's the preset manager and has been creating grotesquely over-effected angry bee buzzfests on every amp from the original G-DECs right down to the latest Mustang series. It's a testament to the greatness of these products that anybody buys one after hearing the presets.

On the other hand, to be totally fair, Shane also has a great deal to do with that innate greatness overall so he both giveth, yet taketh away.

Bottom line is, once you get past preset shock and start rolling yer own, it's ALL greatness and zero buzzfest.


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