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Post subject: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:25 am
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I'm looking forward very much to delivery of my Mustang III on Wednesday, which I know comes with the 2-button footswitch, whereas the IV & V come with the 4-button.

Firstly, let me say I think it's great that a footswitch is included with these amps - most manufacturers don't include one with any of their range. But the cost of the 4-button in the UK is between £60-70. When I consider that the Mustang III was £200 (I got a great deal from my local store, I have to say), the 4-button pedal is about a third of the amp cost.

Now, this is a common theme with a lot of manufacturers. They price the amp very competitively but charge comparatively highly for the footswitches. On the one hand I could be a little cynical and suggest that there's some cross market pricing subsidy here - on the other hand, perhaps the complexities of the 4-button warrants the additional cost.

I appreciate that there are always arguments for/against. Fender may have taken the view that as Mustang IV and V are aimed at gigging players, it makes sense to include the 4-button as standard. Whereas the III is a 'halfway house' aimed at home, smaller club players who might do occasional bigger gigs - but some players in this 'bracket' may not necessarily need the 4-button, so making it an option makes some sense.

But my suggestion to Fender, if they're looking in, is how about giving the customer a choice of pedal when buying the III, with a discount if they choose the 4-pedal over the 2-pedal (offsetting the cost of the 2-pedal), at outset For example, instead of another £60-70, it might only be another £30-40. This makes the acquisition of a 4-button much more attractive at outset for those that want it.

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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:02 pm
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Hi Rockcat,
Right on. The equivalent 4 button for the Fender GDEC 3, which does the same job,
is only €40 -ish on Thomann right now - for the same piece of goods ! Just some buttons
are named differently.
Jim


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:56 am
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In which case Jim I'd have to say that the 4-button for the Mustang is way over-priced and that the 'cross-subsidy' I mentioned would then appear to be going on. :(

The prices of the amps are terrific, no question....but I think a fairer pricing approach for the 4-button pedal is called for. If anyone from Fender is looking in, I'd be interested in your comments?

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:13 am
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Hi Rockcat,

The guys from Fender Tech. are not in the Marketing area, so just like us
other geeks, they're outside the fold here.
Jim


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:54 am
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Rockcat,

Let me know how you like the Mustang vs. the Vox amps you've played or are playing. Curious.

Bob


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:23 pm
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Will do Bob :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:52 am
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Hi Bob - see my review here: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=55201

In a nutshell, it's the same as my AD120VTX rig, but in a smaller lighter package.

I like the MIII but it needs the 4-pedal, & I don't want to have to pay another £60-70 to get one. I don't understand why the MIII only comes with the 2 pedal. :( . It's illogical from both a marketing and 'model positioning' perspective. Let me explain why I think Fender has got this wrong.

The Mustang I & II are aimed squarely at bedroom and small club players respectively where patch switching is not an issue - the M II, (similar to the Valvetronix VT40+), is the model variant in the range that's the biggest mass seller & where Fender sells considerably more M II units than other variants.

But the 100w Mustang III and 2x75w Mustang IV and Mustang V are by definition specifically aimed at the more serious gigging players (otherwise you wouldn't need the extra power!). Here, you have GOT to have the ability to switch between patch banks quickly - most buyers will be playing covers and/or a wide range of styles, hence the need for this type of amp & the need to move between patches easily.

Now, here's the ridiculous thing that's doing my head in, so to speak. In the UK, not only is the big Mustang V Head (which is 2x75w stereo) the same price as the Mustang III, the V actually ships with the 4-pedal footswitch, whereas the III only ships with the 2-button which is quite frankly, almost useless for gigging as it can only be set to a single mode. The Mustang IV is too big and heavy for me. I could buy the Mustang V as I have the AD212 cab, but I'd be back to schlapping more gear with speaker cables that I'd have to set up, and the V is big - it's as wide as my AD120VTX! So bang would go the convenience of a 100w 1x12" combo & I'd have a storage issue in my modest size den.

I'm now in the ridiculous position of really liking the Mustang III, which I would normally love to keep - but I will likely be returning it because paying an extra £70 for the 4-button footswitch (a third of the amp price!) is simply not financially viable. Why? Because for £225 I can buy the Laney Cub 12R (a very loud class A/B all valve 1x12" amp, that I could use with my TonelabST).

There's not even an option at the point of sale for swapping the 2-button for a 4-button at a discounted price (say £25-30). I simply do not understand Fender's marketing approach here - it's as if the extra cost of the 4-button pedal being charged to Mustang III owners is being used to subsidise the Mustang V package!?!

I feel so strongly about this, I've written to Fender to explain the above. :x

Rich :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:55 am
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Hi Rockcat,

You sure have one hell of a, wonderful, dilemma.
Just buy the cheaper Fender G-DEC 3 & 30 ULT4 F/S for half the price,
and ignore the couple of different labels on the buttons, or Dymo
label them, as in PITA's post on the subject. It works the same.
Loved your review, and am still finding new sounds by
just twiddling the options under the hood, as I also have prompted
Forum posters to do. "The sound has to be in your head first."
Hope you get to keep the Mustang, Rich.

Rock on.
Jim


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:00 pm
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Hi Jim - reasonable thought but unfortunately the G-Dec isn't suitable for me - for one thing it's only 30w & not loud enough to gig. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:17 am
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Rockcat wrote:
Hi Jim - reasonable thought but unfortunately the G-Dec isn't suitable for me - for one thing it's only 30w & not loud enough to gig. :wink:


Hi Rockcat,
No need to get into the GDEC amp !
I meant that the G-DEC3 4 Button F/Sw is, operationally, the same unit as the Mustang III 4 button F/Sw , only one or two buttons are named differently ! It works with the Mustang III just the same as the "real one", only much cheaper. ! When it's on the floor you wont see the difference anyway !. Just use the buttons the same way - it's the amp that interprets the function selected - hey ! there's only a single wire and ground cable connecting it !.
Hope that's a bit clearer.
Rock on.
Jim


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:05 am
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Thanks Jim - with you. Now I'm even more concerned. If this is the same pedal, except labelling, then Fender has some questions to answer because I don't consider it's treating its customers fairly.

I've had a search on the internet. Soundslive (UK) are selling the ULT-4 footswitch for £37.40 (Plus £5.25 delivery):

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~nam ... ~12348.asp

The cheapest Mustang 4-button pedal I've found is £59.99 (+£4.95 delivery), from Andertons!:

http://www.andertons.co.uk/electric-gui ... leShopping

Sorry Fender, but this is no way to treat your customers with dual pricing for the same unit (albeit different labelling)!!.In any event, the 4-button switch ought to come with the Mustang III for the reasons I've given previously - Fender, you've just got this plain wrong!

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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:15 pm
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Rockcat wrote:
Thanks Jim - with you. Now I'm even more concerned. If this is the same pedal, except labelling, then Fender has some questions to answer because I don't consider it's treating its customers fairly.

I've had a search on the internet. Soundslive (UK) are selling the ULT-4 footswitch for £37.40 (Plus £5.25 delivery):

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~nam ... ~12348.asp

The cheapest Mustang 4-button pedal I've found is £59.99 (+£4.95 delivery), from Andertons!:

http://www.andertons.co.uk/electric-gui ... leShopping

Sorry Fender, but this is no way to treat your customers with dual pricing for the same unit (albeit different labelling)!!.In any event, the 4-button switch ought to come with the Mustang III for the reasons I've given previously - Fender, you've just got this plain wrong!


Hi Rockcat,
The trades predictable behavour may be despicable, but don't blame the Mustang.
It's got it, in spades, and they know it - now ! The varied prices you've reported show that the ploy is breaking up and prices are coming down. Wish it was the same here in Dublin. Beat them by going for the ULT 4 option and forget trying to change the system. That's the only way they'll learn, if ever. ( By the way, the photo in both your locations are of the ULT-4 F/Sw ! ).
Bet they wish they'd charged more for the Mustang III in the first place !.
Glad they did'nt. Keep in touch, Rich

Best regds.
Jim


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:29 pm
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I bought my MIII at Guitar Center in Indianapolis about a month ago and ordered the cover and 4 button switch at the same time. The amp was delivered just a few days later but the cover and footswitch had to be "special ordered from Fender." The cover arrived in two weeks, but I was given an estimated delivery date sometime in June for the footswitch. I stopped by the store today and they discovered that the footswitch is now on GC's webpage (It had not been a month ago) and is in stock and ready for delivery. They cancelled the "special order" and set up a delivery off of the company website. I recieved a shipment notice later in the day and should have it within a week. Thanks GC! And the salesman met the price I had found at sweetwater. ($39.99 US) I am anxiously awaiting delivery for what will be a very useful addition to my MIII.

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1976 Alvarez Acoustic w/fishbine pickup; '98 American Series Strat (custom rewired); Modded Gibson Les Paul.
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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:37 am
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Rich,

If I decide to go for a Mustang III, I'm all set up, because I bought the 4-button pedal for my G-DEC 3 Thirty, so I'll have both switches and all the options. I agree with you on the pricing issue. Same pedal, but with different labeling shouldn't mean a higher price. :x


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Post subject: Re: 4-button footswitch - cost queried
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:03 am
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Just to keep y'all posted I had a very fast and nice response to my E-mail from Fender UK who were sympathetic and appreciative of the points made. I've also updated them on the 'dual-pricing' issue. So it will be interesting to gain their further thoughts on all this once they've had an opportunity to discuss internally.

Rich :wink:

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