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Post subject: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pedals
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:22 pm
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I got an awesome tone pairing the fuzz with the blackface deluxe model but it's still doing that compressed thing; I can't run the fuzz into an already dirty blackface really. It gets really compressed. This is annoying as I like to use dirt from the amp to warm things up.

The USB version matches up much better to the speaker than before at least... that's great.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:59 pm
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Compression is kind of what the Deluxe is all about. It's not a great amp if you want a fast attack and no compression. Have you tried tweeking the Twin model? Another thing to try if you really must use the Deluxe is to go to the advanced amp settings in Fuse and turn down the "Sag" parameter.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:21 pm
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Pretty much every amp aside from the Twin has this problem, and that's probably only because the Twin is the cleanest.

And yes, I've turned the sag down.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:44 am
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Actually, weirdly, the UK60s doesn't have this problem.

I think I know why; it's a Class A amp, and the others aren't. The Vox ACs are known for not having the sag of other amps, so they probably bypass their normal sag algorithm.

I thought it must be something like this before, but now I'm sure of it.

It really is a joke with the Deluxe though. The distorted sound almost always sounds quieter. I see people using Deluxes for demoing pedals all the time and they sound great.

Fender, fix the Sag algorithm please :(


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:28 pm
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Electric Mistress wrote:
Actually, weirdly, the UK60s doesn't have this problem.

I think I know why; it's a Class A amp, and the others aren't. The Vox ACs are known for not having the sag of other amps, so they probably bypass their normal sag algorithm.

I thought it must be something like this before, but now I'm sure of it.

It really is a joke with the Deluxe though. The distorted sound almost always sounds quieter. I see people using Deluxes for demoing pedals all the time and they sound great.

Fender, fix the Sag algorithm please :(


Respectfully,
Fender, please don't fix the Sag algorithm. I like it the way it is. That's what creates that famous Fender "bloom". The only thing they should fix is to give that model more overall volume so that you can get a cleaner sound out of it and it would also give it less Sag without destroying the most important aspect of the model.
As for the real ones not sagging as much, that's the reason why a lot of us prefer the old ones - because they do sag. The new ones will take a few years before they start doing what they're supposed to. Sag.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:37 am
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What?

The sag algorithm is obviously crapping out when you run a dirty pedal into it. You SHOULD be able to use a dirt box into an already dirty amp without it ending up bizarrely quieter than before.

It does need to be fixed. You can still get plenty "bloom" cranking the sag control.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:31 am
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Electric Mistress wrote:
What?

The sag algorithm is obviously crapping out when you run a dirty pedal into it. You SHOULD be able to use a dirt box into an already dirty amp without it ending up bizarrely quieter than before.

It does need to be fixed. You can still get plenty "bloom" cranking the sag control.


Well, if it's that obvious, then when I use my Danelectro Transparent Overdrive pedal the Deluxe's Sag algorithm should "crap out"... but it doesn't. It gets louder. It still sags, but it's definitely louder not quieter.
O.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:22 pm
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Take clips of it please. Every pedal I use with the Deluxe except on the cleanest setting gets very compressed and mushy. This is true of every amp outside of the Fender Twin and AC30. Very clean cleans are always going to be quieter live and harder to cut through a mix with.

I really want to use a Bassman model as a pedal platform, as I find it has the most "Neutral" kind of sound for pedals and sounds especially great with Fuzz. No can do, unless I have the clean sound very clean, but using some of the Bassman's own dirt is part of how I get my Fuzz tones with other modelers.

Of course, if you're using it at a very clean setting and using dirt more on the pedal than from the volume pushing the amp, it will get louder. Otherwise, no. You cannot use an OD to push an already dirty amp in the world of the Mustang, outside of the UK60s model. Whereas with real tube or SS amps, you can. I can do this all day with my ZT Lunchbox(which also contains some DSP) and it sounds great.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:54 pm
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Guess I forgot the part about the Deluxe already being distorted. Sorry, my bad. I can see where that can become a problem. Could it be that the Mustang's Deluxe model's internal gain structure hasn't got enough headroom to accommodate that much gain? Are you using Humbuckers? I found that on the old Deluxes, Humbuckers do tend to make it sag too much. To me the old Deluxes were THE quintessential Strat and Tele amps and the Twin was better for the Les Pauls. Have you tried using the fuzz post gain? What about the Bias control? I find that can help with the dynamics too.

On a selfish note, if Fender does make a new version of the Deluxe, I hope they allow users to keep it they way it is as well. Otherwise this will be the last update I ever give my amp.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:45 pm
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But if it was properly replicating a Deluxe, it wouldn't happen. Real Deluxes don't go that crazy compressed when you run anything through then dirty.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:45 pm
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I never ran an old one that dirty. It started to really sing with the volume at about 6 or 7 and I never needed any more dirt (or volume) than that. At that point though, the sag was pretty prominent and I never felt the need for a distortion or fuzz pedal so I never used one. I guess I've never liked sounds that are too distorted and don't care much for Fuzz pedals - it's the sustain that I live for.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Still serious problems with compression when using OD pe
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:56 pm
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When I say "dirty", keep in mind I mean clean breakup pretty much.


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