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Post subject: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:01 am
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Is anyone else as disappointed with the 4x12M cab sim as I am? I’m fairly certain that sim is based on the standard Marshall 1960 4x12 cab loaded with Celestion G12T-75s. I know this cab is known for having lots of highs and lows, and somewhat scooped in the mids. But the 4x12M cab sim is just REALLY trebly and thin…comes across harsh and raspy. And it doesn’t matter whether I’m using headphones or the combo speaker…same result.

And last night when I downloaded the Mustang III presets just to peruse through them, it confirmed my experience. If a preset sounded really trebly and harsh, it was generally using the 4x12M cab sim. Switching to 4x12G (greenbacks) or 4x12V (Vintage 30s) made a significant improvement.

Now I like greenbacks in general, so don’t have a problem using that cab sim. BUT, so many of the classic tones from the 80s and 90s and even today have been made using the Marshall 1960 cabs, I’m really disappointed that I can’t make it work.

Has anyone else noticed this?


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:45 am
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Muleya wrote:
Is anyone else as disappointed with the 4x12M cab sim as I am? I’m fairly certain that sim is based on the standard Marshall 1960 4x12 cab loaded with Celestion G12T-75s. I know this cab is known for having lots of highs and lows, and somewhat scooped in the mids. But the 4x12M cab sim is just REALLY trebly and thin…comes across harsh and raspy. And it doesn’t matter whether I’m using headphones or the combo speaker…same result.

And last night when I downloaded the Mustang III presets just to peruse through them, it confirmed my experience. If a preset sounded really trebly and harsh, it was generally using the 4x12M cab sim. Switching to 4x12G (greenbacks) or 4x12V (Vintage 30s) made a significant improvement.

Now I like greenbacks in general, so don’t have a problem using that cab sim. BUT, so many of the classic tones from the 80s and 90s and even today have been made using the Marshall 1960 cabs, I’m really disappointed that I can’t make it work.

Has anyone else noticed this?


After years of using modelers, I've learned to mostly ignore the names of the cab sims (and preamps) and just go for the sound I want. You seem to have found a solution in the greenbacks so why worry about it. These amps are like other modeling products from other companies in that they will have their weaknesses. The other thing is that this is a Fender product and will likely be best at emulating Fender-ish sounds. That's their forte. Line6 is strong with the high gain models but to me, completely suck at anything like a Fender sound. Boss is better at the lower gain Fender-ish sounds but even they don't come close to what these amps sound like.

O.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:32 pm
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I understand that, and even expect that. And while I don't expect it to sound spot on (if it did, I'd surely regret all the money I've spent on my tube amps) I do expect it to sound good! Granted, tone is subjective, but it's hard for me to think that anyone finds the tone of this cab sim appealing!


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:10 pm
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I agree,i have the real marshall 1960a 4x12 cab and it sounds nothing like the fender cab 4x12m cab model of it,i use my line 6 spider 4x12 cab with my mustang v head and it sounds good with it and my line 6 cab is much brighter sounding then my marshall 4x12,if i hooked up my marshall 4x12 to my mustang v it would not have as much mid's and high end compared to the spider 4x12 but the marshall sounds good with my other amp modeling processors,fender should rework the 4x12m cab model to sound more like the real one,maybe a firmware update can do it?


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:20 pm
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The 4x12M actually sounds fantastic through the amp's speaker - it's the best "Match" for the speaker, it never sounds too dark or too fizzy. But direct, it sounds kind of $@!&.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:30 pm
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You can hear it here -

http://www.box.net/shared/7po4nozlvh

It sounds like fizzy crap. It improves a lot if you had a low pass filter around 6.5k with a slow steep:

http://www.box.net/shared/gl9jr1vlkb

But not quite right. Getting something to sound both alive & not fizzy is very difficult with modeling, but most of the other models managed it.

Any other cabs sound good with the JCM800 model through USB?


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:28 pm
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I prefer either the 4x12V or the 4x12G...the G cab seems to sound better when using the speaker (on the MI, anyway) and the V cab when using headphones, but both are an improvement over the M cab, IMO.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:20 am
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The M cab is one of my favorites on the Mustang III.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:53 pm
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I tried it through the speaker today. I will grant you it was much better, but I still much prefer the 4x12G. The volume difference between the two was huge...the G cab is much louder. I'm assuming it's the additional mids making the difference. I also discovered the G cab is louder than the V cab, and that didn't make much sense to me??


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:02 am
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Hi, Muleya.

Just curious, what amp models are you using with the 412m cab sim. Also, have you tried using the Post Gain Overdrive (I'll just call it PGO) in any of these situations? I have found that it can really mellow out the harshness in some patches. In fact at times, that's all I use it for - I set its gain really low and let the amp model do the distorting. Too bad we can't have both pre and post overdrives simultaneously. Cheers.
O.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:40 pm
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Well, I'm not using it with any, but I suppose the one's I'd be tempted to are British 80s and Metal 2000.

To be honest, I've not really looked into the PGO. It seemed a little weird...I guess it would be like putting and OD pedal in the FX Loop, which I've never done. I might play around with it sometime, just to see what it does. Thanks for the idea.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:06 pm
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I'm just guessing here but the way it sounds (to me) it seems like Fender's engineers voiced that module like an overdriven power tube section of an amp. It is definitely not the same as a pre gain O/D. I've taken to using the PGO on the Twin model and cranking the gain on the Twin... I LIKE IT! Not really a dirty sound, more of a ballsy somewhat more evil Twin.

O.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:40 pm
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PGO makes things sound way too muddy for me.


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:29 pm
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Well, never mind. I just now tried it - that cab sim is just way too scooped and is probably why there's such a huge volume drop. Curiously, the PGO is really muddy and lifeless on it while on the other cabs it just takes away the excessive grit. Some people like that scooped mid with buzz on top sound but it drives me crazy. It's preamp distortion and it's not nearly as pleasing to my ear as power tube distortion. Too bad tube amps have to be so impractically loud to get that sound. To me, what Fender has done with the PGO is a godsend!

O


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Post subject: Re: What's up with the 4x12M cab sim?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:51 am
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I wouldn't have guessed that was to model power tube distortion...if so, why would it look like a rack mounted thing? I dunno, it's weird, though I may still play around with it.

I wouldn't say that tone is preamp distortion, if so it would sound that way with every cab. It's definitely just the cab/speakers. I used to own a Celestion G12H Anniversary speaker, just because everyone raved about them. But I tried it with about 3 different amps, and I found the top end to be harsh with all of them...it's just what some speakers do!

But you do raise an interesting point about how these amp models incorporate power amp distortion...though I'm going to start a new thread for it.


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