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Post subject: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:13 pm
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Hello all you "Expert" Mustang users out there. Here is a project that would help the rest of us 'Stang Noobies....

It would be great if some experienced user could come up with a brief description or alphabet soup that explains all the controls and settings on the amp models, speaker cabinets, and effects functions. I have been a player for years, but haven't owned any amps with this many adjustable parameters. The Fender manuals for the mustang or FUSE don't offer much in the way of explanation. They explain HOW to change all the functions, but not WHAT they all do, so it is mostly trial and error (mostly error) to figure all this stuff out. For example:

Speaker cabinet: What is the difference between 4x12C and 4x12G or 4x12V, etc.?

Chorus & flanger: Sine vs Triangle? and what all the paramters actually do.

SAG & Bias: I found a great description on another post, but it would be great to have that in a cheat sheet with all the rest of this info in simplified form. What it does, not necessarily HOW it does it (though that is interesting, too)

What in the world is a ring modulator and what do those adjustments do?

In the second page of some amp model adjustments, there is a second master gain/volume setting.... What effect does that have on the sound of the amp beyone simple volume? (Do some amps have both a pre & post gain in a two tube preamp section and another gain for the power amp?)

Blend, etc. on other amps.....

You get the picture.

These controls are there for a reason, but unless I have a manual for the amp that is being modeled I wouldn't know what they are. Some brilliant user would do us all a great favor if you could put it all in a single document. (Fender are you listening?)

I have had my Mustang III for three days and love it. I have already gotten better sound from it than any other amp I have used. Please help me love it even more!

Thanks

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1976 Alvarez Acoustic w/fishbine pickup; '98 American Series Strat (custom rewired); Modded Gibson Les Paul.
Mustang III; Crate v33 2-12; Raven G20; Digitech RP-2000; Morley Bad Horsie 2; various Danelectric stomps ...


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:07 pm
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The cybertwin (original and SE) manuals (can be found under support on the website) give an explanation of what each dial on the effects pedals do. Some are missing, but most are there. I too was very frustrated to have such a amazing resource at my fingertips, but with no detailed manuals for use. Fender seem to have reduced their documentaton with each subsequent DSP amp release. If you look at the original cybertwin manual its about 60 pages for one language, now with the mustang/FUSE its 12!

Users expect a full explanation of the features of their amp, if the company can't be bothered to explain these features which have been elsewhere, at least provide copies of the previous manuals (or links to)where these effects have been described.

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* Fender Mustang I (V1) * Marshall Class 5 * Vox lil' Night Train*Epiphone G400 * Ibanez SA260 * Fretking Blue Label Eclat* Epiphone ES339 Pro*


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:21 pm
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>>> (....Users expect a full explanation of the features of their amp, if the company can't be bothered to explain these features which have been elsewhere, at least provide copies of the previous manuals (or links to)where these effects have been described.....) <<<

I understand that the technology is advancing faster than would be cost effective to pring a manual. But with PDF files so easy to download, these could easily be updated along with the firmware.

NOTE: I am not frustrated or angry... This is a truly awesome amp! I am just hopeful and tryng to put a bug in the ear of someone who is good at this stuff....

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Pastor Ken - NM9P

1976 Alvarez Acoustic w/fishbine pickup; '98 American Series Strat (custom rewired); Modded Gibson Les Paul.
Mustang III; Crate v33 2-12; Raven G20; Digitech RP-2000; Morley Bad Horsie 2; various Danelectric stomps ...


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:19 am
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Well - I might take this on . . . but I don't really want to do Fender's job and might get a few wrong.

When it comes to speaker cabinets they are pretty straight forward. The Letter at the end is the key. V= vintage 30's, G = Greenbacks etc. If you don't know much about speakers you can go to the various web sights and read their info. The difference is in the frequency ranges and what frequencies are emphasized -. Really - just try them and pick the one you like.

I understand the desire for a "cheat sheet" and if I can find the time I might start one - but man there are a LOT of amps and effects to outline - maybe just the "uncommon" settings?

Bo


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:52 pm
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I also found the speaker selections just a bit hard to decipher.
2 X 12 C - I figured that was the "Classic" Fender closed-back 2-12 cabinet
4 X 12 M - Marshall 1/2 stack? "Modern?" Default for Brit 80's
4 X 12 G - "Greenbacks" - Classic early Marshal cabinets? Default for Brit 70's & Metal 2000
4 x 12 V - No clue as Vox didn't run 4-12 cabinets. Default for American 90's (M*** Triple Rec?) Could it be "Van Halen???"

SS12 & SS212 - Super Sonic combo's with more modern speakers.


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:41 pm
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I'm pretty sure 4x12V stands for V30s (Celestion Vintage 30) as Gary pointed out...this would be your typical Mesa 4x12 cab, default use would be for the American 90s, though it works nicely with the British 80s, too.

And that 4x12G is for Greenbacks, as saransk pointed out...your vintage Marshall 4x12 cab. Though there were several vintage Celestions that were referred to as "greenbacks"...20W, 25W, 30W, and some of those with resonant frequencies of 55Hz and some of 75Hz...so who knows which one is modelled here? I'm kind of thinking the 25W 75Hz variety, but that's only a guess.

I think 4x12M means the current standard Marshall 4x12, which is loaded with Celestion G12T-75s...it sounds to me that's what it's getting at. These speakers are known for having lots of bass and treble and not so much in the mids. Though I find the modelling to be waaayyyy too trebly for my tastes!

I haven't figured out what the C in 2x12C stands for, unless it's Celestion...which doesn't quite make sense since all the 4x12s are probably based on Celestion speakers, too. Or I suppose it could be for Classic, but it wouldn't be Fender Classic...all the Fender cabs have been pretty clearly identified. But I'm guessing this cabinet is the standard Vox 2x12 loaded with Celestion Alnico Blues. I'm pretty sure this is the default cab for the British 60s (Vox)

And I'm pretty sure the SuperSonic cabs are loaded with V30s, as well

I, too, had some difficulty with some effects parameters, but a Google search helped!


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:44 am
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I'll give this a whirl - but now I'm half brain dead from doing this....
I really like the amp and just wanted to know what I am starting with before I go changing a lot of settings. Some are just way too loud for what I want, and others not so much.
Once I started looking - Wow !!!

I recently bought this Mustang III and 4-button footswitch a week or so ago and now making a spreadsheet with almost every preset setting - (fuse 2.4.0 and firmware update 1.8 )

My spreadsheet Included the following SETTINGS - (spreadsheet not shown - still logging and trying to confirm original settings)
AMP (Fuse) CABINET (Fuse)
'57 Deluxe 57DLX
'59 Bassman BSSMN
'57 Champ CHAMP
'65 Deluxe 65DLX
Princeton 65PRN
'65 Twin 65TWN
Super-Sonic SS112
Brit '60s 2x12C
Brit '70s 4x12G
Brit '80s 4x12M
American90s 4x12V
Metal 2000 4x12G

STOMP BOX
Overdrive
Fixed Wah
Touch Wah
Fuzz
Fuzz Tough Wah
Simple Compressor
Compressor

MOD
Sine Chorus
Triangle Chorus
Sine Flanger
Triangle Flanger
Vibratone
Vintage Tremolo
Sine Tremolo
Ring Modulator
Step Filter
Phaser
Pitch Shifter

DELAY
Mono Delay
Mono Echo Filter
Stereo Echo Filter
Multitap delay
Ping Pong Delay
Ducking Delay
Reverse Delay
Tape Delay
Stereo Tape Delay

REVERB
Small Hall
Large Hall
Small Room
Large Room
Small Plate
Large Plate
Ambient
Arena
Fender '63 Spring
Fender '65 Spring

It looks to me like there are some errors(or something strange to me) in the Presets…... Read on………..

Because I wanted to know what the original settings were, and have 'My List' to look at, I made a spreadsheet for every preset and setting 00-99.
The settings I logged were from the amp and a few from Fuse.
Some of these Preset Settings don't jive to me…… ie: the amp shows 7.1 and fuse shows 68.6%.

This is what the fuse software selects for amps and cabs -

AMP (Fuse) CABINET (Fuse)
'57 Deluxe 57DLX
'59 Bassman BSSMN
'57 Champ CHAMP
'65 Deluxe 65DLX
Princeton 65PRN
'65 Twin 65TWN
Super-Sonic SS112
Brit '60s 2x12C
Brit '70s 4x12G
Brit '80s 4x12M
American90s 4x12V
Metal 2000 4x12G

Metal 2000 must actually be SS212 cabinet (not 4x12G) - It is the only amp that 'does not change' (when selected) within the 'fuse' software…… Software Error ?

When you go thru each of the 12 amps - SS212 will not come up at all and 4x12g will appear twice .
In Fuse; The Amp that is Selected will 'Change the Cabinet Selection 'NAME'. But If the Cabinet Selection 'NAME' is changed, The Amp Selection 'NAME' does not change

There are numerous other Presets where the amps don't match the cabinets.
All of the 12 Basic Amps in Slots 88-99 appear to be correct except Metal 2000.
ie: Slot 99 Metal 2000 should be SS212 - changed it and it sounded good to me.
The Preset Slot that doesn't match the amp with the cabinet (in my list) are -
1,28,30,31,38,49,53,54,57,59,63,65,69,71,73,74,77,78,80,82,86,99

Also - Some effects are shown in the path (and are also shown on the preset list) but are not actually turned on.
ie: Slot 43 Bassman Splash - Reverb was not turned on - so I turned it on and saved.
ie: Slot 49 Supersonic Burn - 'Only' the Reverb was turned on - so I turned all on other effects and saved.

Anybody agree or disagree with these settings ? ? ? ?
Mr. Fender ? ? ? ?


Last edited by Byrdland on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:05 pm
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Whew! Quite a list!

Byrdland wrote:

It looks to me like there are some errors(or something strange to me) in the Presets…... Read on………..
[...]
Because I wanted to know what the original settings were, and have 'My List' to look at, I made a spreadsheet for every preset and setting 00-99.
The settings I logged were from the amp and a few from Fuse.
Some of these Preset Settings don't jive to me…… ie: the amp shows 7.1 and fuse shows 68.6%.


Can't say I've noticed this. Which parameter shows this discrepancy?

Quote:
Metal 2000 must actually be SS212 cabinet (not 4x12G) - It is the only amp that 'does not change' (when selected) within the 'fuse' software…… Software Error ?


I don't know why the default cabinet simulations are associated with the various amp models, but I don't believe it is an error that some are repeated and some are unused by default.

Quote:
When you go thru each of the 12 amps - SS212 will not come up at all and 4x12g will appear twice .
In Fuse; The Amp that is Selected will 'Change the Cabinet Selection 'NAME'. But If the Cabinet Selection 'NAME' is changed, The Amp Selection 'NAME' does not change

There are numerous other Presets where the amps don't match the cabinets.
All of the 12 Basic Amps in Slots 88-99 appear to be correct except Metal 2000.
ie: Slot 99 Metal 2000 should be SS212 - changed it and it sounded good to me.
The Preset Slot that doesn't match the amp with the cabinet (in my list) are -
1,28,30,31,38,49,53,54,57,59,63,65,69,71,73,74,77,78,80,82,86,99


Yes, the idea is you get to experiment as though you had a studio full of amps and cabs and you get to mix and match them to suit your fancy (you'll notice that you can also elect to turn the cab sim off completely for any given amp model [and in fact some folks have posted here that this sounds better in many cases, so be sure to try that too]; also useful if you have separate cab sims that you prefer [e.g., in a DAW during recording]).

Quote:
Also - Some effects are shown in the path (and are also shown on the preset list) but are not actually turned on.
ie: Slot 43 Bassman Splash - Reverb was not turned on - so I turned it on and saved.
ie: Slot 49 Supersonic Burn - 'Only' the Reverb was turned on - so I turned all on other effects and saved.


Possibly, the thinking here may have been that you can use the foot switch in effects mode to turn the effect(s) on/off while playing/improvising with those presets (maybe for switching between rhythm and lead, for example).

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:21 pm
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PITA wrote:
Whew! Quite a list!

Yes it is.

Byrdland wrote:

It looks to me like there are some errors(or something strange to me) in the Presets…... Read on………..
[...]
Because I wanted to know what the original settings were, and have 'My List' to look at, I made a spreadsheet for every preset and setting 00-99.
The settings I logged were from the amp and a few from Fuse.
Some of these Preset Settings don't jive to me…… ie: the amp shows 7.1 and fuse shows 68.6%.

PITA wrote:
Can't say I've noticed this. Which parameter shows this discrepancy?

This example was for Preset 10 Purple Fuzz - Stomp Box - GAIN Setting.
If you make the setting on the amp, the screen would show as 7.1.
If you make the setting in fuse, you are seeing 68.6%.
No big deal, just wasn't the same number to work with.


Byrdland wrote:
Metal 2000 must actually be SS212 cabinet (not 4x12G) - It is the only amp that 'does not change' (when selected) within the 'fuse' software…… Software Error ?

PITA wrote:
I don't know why the default cabinet simulations are associated with the various amp models, but I don't believe it is an error that some are repeated and some are unused by default.


Metal 2000 is not associated with SS212 at all and should be (in my opinion). There shouldnt be 2 amps that default to 4x12g, and none to SS212.

Byrdland wrote:
When you go thru each of the 12 amps - SS212 will not come up at all and 4x12g will appear twice .
In Fuse; The Amp that is Selected will 'Change the Cabinet Selection 'NAME'. But If the Cabinet Selection 'NAME' is changed, The Amp Selection 'NAME' does not change

There are numerous other Presets where the amps don't match the cabinets.
All of the 12 Basic Amps in Slots 88-99 appear to be correct except Metal 2000.
ie: Slot 99 Metal 2000 should be SS212 - changed it and it sounded good to me.
The Preset Slot that doesn't match the amp with the cabinet (in my list) are -
1,28,30,31,38,49,53,54,57,59,63,65,69,71,73,74,77,78,80,82,86,99


PITA wrote:
Yes, the idea is you get to experiment as though you had a studio full of amps and cabs and you get to mix and match them to suit your fancy (you'll notice that you can also elect to turn the cab sim off completely for any given amp model [and in fact some folks have posted here that this sounds better in many cases, so be sure to try that too]; also useful if you have separate cab sims that you prefer [e.g., in a DAW during recording]).

Understood.... I just think the amp 'name' should reflect the proper cabinet, at least in the original presets. If not using 'fuse', who cares anyway what it says, but the amp will have the incorrect name.

Byrdland wrote:
Also - Some effects are shown in the path (and are also shown on the preset list) but are not actually turned on.
ie: Slot 43 Bassman Splash - Reverb was not turned on - so I turned it on and saved.
ie: Slot 49 Supersonic Burn - 'Only' the Reverb was turned on - so I turned all on other effects and saved.

PITA wrote:
Possibly, the thinking here may have been that you can use the foot switch in effects mode to turn the effect(s) on/off while playing/improvising with those presets (maybe for switching between rhythm and lead, for example).

You can't use the footswitch to turn them off and back on when they are not turned on to begin with.

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:35 am
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Muleya wrote:
I'm pretty sure 4x12V stands for V30s (Celestion Vintage 30) as Gary pointed out...this would be your typical Mesa 4x12 cab, default use would be for the American 90s, though it works nicely with the British 80s, too.

And that 4x12G is for Greenbacks, as saransk pointed out...your vintage Marshall 4x12 cab. Though there were several vintage Celestions that were referred to as "greenbacks"...20W, 25W, 30W, and some of those with resonant frequencies of 55Hz and some of 75Hz...so who knows which one is modelled here? I'm kind of thinking the 25W 75Hz variety, but that's only a guess.

I think 4x12M means the current standard Marshall 4x12, which is loaded with Celestion G12T-75s...it sounds to me that's what it's getting at. These speakers are known for having lots of bass and treble and not so much in the mids. Though I find the modelling to be waaayyyy too trebly for my tastes!

I haven't figured out what the C in 2x12C stands for, unless it's Celestion...which doesn't quite make sense since all the 4x12s are probably based on Celestion speakers, too. Or I suppose it could be for Classic, but it wouldn't be Fender Classic...all the Fender cabs have been pretty clearly identified. But I'm guessing this cabinet is the standard Vox 2x12 loaded with Celestion Alnico Blues. I'm pretty sure this is the default cab for the British 60s (Vox)

And I'm pretty sure the SuperSonic cabs are loaded with V30s, as well

I, too, had some difficulty with some effects parameters, but a Google search helped!


I think that you are dead on here. I actually figured out the cabinet designations by the tone. They do a very good job of emulating the different speaker characteristics. I personally prefer V30s and they do a good job with this.


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:14 pm
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Byrdland wrote:
Metal 2000 is not associated with SS212 at all and should be (in my opinion). There shouldnt be 2 amps that default to 4x12g, and none to SS212.

But, apparently not in Fender's opinion (not being facetious, that's all I was trying to say earlier).
Byrdland wrote:
When you go thru each of the 12 amps - SS212 will not come up at all and 4x12g will appear twice .
In Fuse; The Amp that is Selected will 'Change the Cabinet Selection 'NAME'. But If the Cabinet Selection 'NAME' is changed, The Amp Selection 'NAME' does not change

Ok, I think I get it--you're forced to change the cab whenever you choose the Metal2000 amp (to get your preferred cab). On the bright side, at least you have an option with a few extra clicks to fix it exactly the way you want, though I can see it would get old if most of your presets involved that amp+cab combination (I think it's possible to copy a preset as a starting point, so you could conceivably go that route when constructing new presets too, just start with a base you've created the way you want).
Byrdland wrote:
PITA wrote:
Possibly, the thinking here may have been that you can use the foot switch in effects mode to turn the effect(s) on/off while playing/improvising with those presets (maybe for switching between rhythm and lead, for example).

You can't use the footswitch to turn them off and back on when they are not turned on to begin with.

Actually, you can toggle them any time (unless I've misunderstood you completely). But of course you're free to save them with effects on if that floats your boat better--and probably consider yourself lucky if that's all the preset tweaking you need to get a sound you like! 8)

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:03 pm
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colos wrote:
The cybertwin (original and SE) manuals (can be found under support on the website) give an explanation of what each dial on the effects pedals do.


Great suggestion, colos. Cybertwin must have been a doozy of an amp.


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:31 pm
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Thanks, unfortunately my MI seems to be dying and the use of effects is the least of my worries atm.

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* Fender Mustang I (V1) * Marshall Class 5 * Vox lil' Night Train*Epiphone G400 * Ibanez SA260 * Fretking Blue Label Eclat* Epiphone ES339 Pro*


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Post subject: Re: Amp & Effects Control Cheat Sheet?
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:37 pm
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:cry:


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