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Post subject: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop question
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:05 am
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Hi all. New to the forum. Maybe this has been answered before but I did not find anything searching. I want to get a volume pedal to run in the effects loop of my M IV. Jeremy at Fender, said I needed a stereo volume pedal to be able to fully control both sides effectively and that a mono pedal would only control one side (since the amp is in stereo) Makes sense. Even the advanced manual says the same thing about the effects loop. However, to determine which pedal I need, (high or low impedance) I have to determine which kind of effects loop is on the amp. Jeremy reports that RND has not released the schematics for the new amps yet so he was not able to tell me what kind of effects loop it is. If it is a buffered effects loop, I would need a low impedance stereo volume pedal. If it is a non-buffered or line level loop, I would need the high impedance one. Does anyone know what effects loop is on the M IV and which stereo volume pedal I would need. I just don't want to go and buy one, find out it's the wrong one, send it back and wait for the other to arrive. The closest music store to me is an hour away and I found out they only have mono pedals in stock. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Fender for a wonderful amp! Going to download the new firmware right away!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:01 am
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I'm gonna be following this because I want to use a volume pedal in my loop too. I emailed Fender about it but I haven't heard back yet, but then I only emailed them yesterday. When I get a response I'll post it.

I'm gonna be ordering a Mustang IV later today!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:20 am
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Dumb question, but can't you just plug your guitar into a volume pedal first, then connect the pedal to the guitar input on the amp?

Also, if you wanted to add a wah pedal, wouldn't you just go Guitar -> Pedal -> Amp?

Maybe I'm wrong. I currently don't have any pedals, but I was thinking about getting a volume or wah.

Can someone try this out and see how it works?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:49 am
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kartes wrote:
Dumb question, but can't you just plug your guitar into a volume pedal first, then connect the pedal to the guitar input on the amp?

Also, if you wanted to add a wah pedal, wouldn't you just go Guitar -> Pedal -> Amp?

Maybe I'm wrong. I currently don't have any pedals, but I was thinking about getting a volume or wah.

Can someone try this out and see how it works?

Thanks.



Depends . . .. . if you want the pedal to effect the output volume then you put it in the effects loop (last pedal). If you want it to act more as an "overdrive" type effect - like pushing your guitar volume knob up to 10 or down to 3, then you want it before the preamp. Two totally different effects.

Wah . . . almost always goes between the guitar and the amp input.

Also, since this is an all Solid State amp I'm not sure the EFX impedence is a very big issue. I could be wrong on that . . .?

Bo


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:09 am
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I'm using a low imedance Morley Volume Plus pedal in the effects loop of a Mustang III--- works GREAT with no signal deterioration.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:00 pm
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I was told, by someone in the Fender community, the Mustang III was a series loop so the whole signal passes thru and out, unlike the parrellel loop. I was also told the signal in any effects loop is "active" or "high impedance", by Ernie Ball, so in my case I got a Ernie Ball volume pedal 25K for active pickups and effects loop. It seems to work fine and does what I need it to do.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:49 pm
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Thanks for the replies guys. Mr. Baker you are correct about how to run the volume pedal and describing what it does (from my research), but it does make a huge difference low vs. high impedance pedal according to the research I have done on volume pedals and effects loops. If you plug the wrong type in it will degrade your volume. Most buffered effects loops have a volume-like control next to the effects loop. My Yamaha DG 100 does and it is a buffered loop.

Cropmusik, thanks on how you run a pedal. Since you're not having issues with your sound and have good volume gain and no loss of overall volume, I'm assuming the effects loop IS buffered since you're using a low impedance, mono pedal. This lets me know that I need a stereo, low impedance volume pedal then. According to Fender, I can use a mono pedal but It will only control one side of my stereo amp. This works fine for you since the M III isn't stereo.

abilly73, thanks but I believe who told you got it backwards. "Active" requires a buffered, or low impedance 25k volume pedal and high impedance is line level or "non-buffered" from what I have learned which mean using a mono or stereo 250k or 500k volume pedal and not going through the effects loop. That pedal goes from guitar directly to input of amp. Also from my research, as I stated above, the effects loop in my SS Yamaha DG 100 is a buffered loop as it has a control on it. Sorry, but Ernie Ball told you wrong. Don't worry, Ernie Ball was clueless when I called them about my stereo effects loop and said a mono pedal would work fine. He didn't know as he stuttered when telling me. Fender guy got it right saying I needed a stereo volume pedal. Manual reads as such also.

The following is from the 25k stereo Ernie Ball volume pedal description. "The potentiometer has a 25k ohm resistance suitable for the audio path of active instruments or buffered effect returns."

I'm assuming you have a M III and this is why the pedal is working fine for you since you have the correct one for your amp/effects loop, same as cropmusik.

Thanks for helping me figure this out guys.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang IV: Buffered vs Non-buffered effects loop questi
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:36 pm
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jcwillow777 wrote:
I'm gonna be following this because I want to use a volume pedal in my loop too. I emailed Fender about it but I haven't heard back yet, but then I only emailed them yesterday. When I get a response I'll post it.

I'm gonna be ordering a Mustang IV later today!


Thanks. Please let us know what you find out. As I stated on my first post, when I talked to Jeremy at Fender on the phone, he said we need a stereo volume pedal to have full volume control since it's a true stereo amp. You can use a mono pedal but will only affect one side of the amp. He did not know if the effects loop was buffered or non-buffered i.e. line level, as RND had not released the schematics to them yet. It does make a difference if you get a mono or stereo pedal and whether or not you plan on going through the effects loop (to control overall volume) or through the input of the amp (acts like the volume knob on your guitar for pre-gain distortion etc) According to cropmusik and abilly73, they are using the low impedance for active instruments/buffered effects and volume pedal works fine with no loss of volume. Let us know!


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