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Post subject: Recording too quiet
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:51 pm
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I just bought the Mustang I the other day. Great amp, really loving it. It convinced me to buy the IV or V later on... But I do have a little trouble with recording through the USB.

I installed Fuse and Ableton Live, and the driver. I also have Audacity. When recording with Audacity or Ableton, the sound is just too quiet, almost silent. Changing the volume knob on the amp doesn't change anything. I also thought it could have been a problem with the volume on the pc, but when I open the properties, every bar is at it's max.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:58 pm
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I've noticed that the preamp volume on each of your presets makes a difference in the tracking volume, but the master volume really doesn't. I've still had mostly the same problem, but I've gotten the volume up to a decent level then I turn the track volume up in my recording software and add a little compression to the recorded track to bring the volume up. Hope that helps some! I've seen in other threads on this forum that others are having the same issue, it doesn't seem like there's a perfect solution.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:34 am
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Yes, the master volume doesn't affect your recording. But what do you mean with "preamp volume of your presets"? I'm guessing you mean in Fuse, and safe it to your amp?

I dislike turning the track volume up on my recording software. The volume boost is hardly enough, and then I'm not even talking about quality. It is a temporary solution at best.

Could this have anything to do with my sound card?


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:50 am
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No, I don't think it's your sound card since it seems that everyone is having the same problem. The preamp volume is the "volume" control next to your gain dial in the preamp stage. The volume control controls the volume of the output of your preamp before it goes into the power amp to be boosted to speaker volume. The "master" control is the volume control for the power amp of your amplifier and it only controls the volume of your power amp. The amp bypasses the power amp stage when you're recording and the signal goes directly from your preamp to your computer, which is why the master volume has no effect on your recording volume.

I guess on the Mustang I it probably doesn't have a knob on the amp itself for preamp volume, my experience is with a Mustang V... That is something you will have to adjust in FUSE. Like I said, it's going to be one of the first couple knobs on the left side of the amp you're using right next to the gain.


Last edited by itshreds on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:36 pm
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itshreds wrote:
I guess on the Mustang I it probably doesn't have a knob on the amp itself for preamp volume, my experience is with a Mustang V... That is something you will have to adjust in FUSE. Like I said, it's going to be one of the first couple knobs on the left side of the amp you're using right next to the gain.


Mustang I also has gain and volume knobs on amp.

And you can always turn up the volume later in audacity, once you record the track.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:25 am
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You can probably tell my time is very limited, as I hadn't thought of the volume knob before. However, I did notice most of the presets already have the volume pretty high, but I'm going to try it out later today. I also read on an other thread people used reaper without problems, so I downloaded the trial for that too. You never know.

As for turning up the volume in audacity, isn't that like zooming in on an already pixelated picture? I could be wrong, off course.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:39 am
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morbit-alatariel wrote:
As for turning up the volume in audacity, isn't that like zooming in on an already pixelated picture? I could be wrong, off course.

Nope, That's comparing apples and oranges (graphics and audio). Increasing the volume will not degrade the audio unless you hike it up past 0dB - at which point you'll start getting digital distortion which is very ugly.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:51 am
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p90sdude wrote:
morbit-alatariel wrote:
As for turning up the volume in audacity, isn't that like zooming in on an already pixelated picture? I could be wrong, off course.

Nope, That's comparing apples and oranges (graphics and audio). Increasing the volume will not degrade the audio unless you hike it up past 0dB - at which point you'll start getting digital distortion which is very ugly.


And it just so happens that's exactly what I got. I just tried it, the only way to get the volume up to a decent level is past 0db. It's like I played through a SS amp that's been abused for 10 years straight. I can't describe it any better.

As I feared, I was right about the volume in the presets. The preamp volume is set around 7 or so in most presets I use. Turning it up to 10 only slightly improves it, but still not the volume I need it to be.

As for reaper, it did not fix the issue.

Don't get me wrong, the quality of the recordings is very good, there is no loss as you would with a simple cable or mic, but the volume is just too low. I bought this amp mainly for the USB recording, I'm desperate to find a working solution so at least I have my money's worth. (Although, as a regular amp I would certainly buy the IV or V later on)


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:57 am
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In audacity, select the track then select the effect called Amplify.... It will suggest a value and go with that. Just click the OK button.

Here's a youtube video that explains why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F4FETLvQFI


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:17 am
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morbit-alatariel wrote:
And it just so happens that's exactly what I got. I just tried it, the only way to get the volume up to a decent level is past 0db. It's like I played through a SS amp that's been abused for 10 years straight. I can't describe it any better.

If you have to turn up the volume on a track past 0dB to hear anything then your not monitoring the output audio at the correct level.

For those brand new to audio recording - and getting advice from others that are brand new to audio recording it can seem a big puzzle. Since there is a big disparity between system resources and hardware from computer to computer, it can be like a crap shoot...

Here's the skinny, at the very least, you need to be aware of a few things.

  • One is "gain stage", this refers to the equipment involved in getting the signal to the recorder at a correct and reliable level.
  • The other is "monitoring level", this refers to setting up the means by which a correct and reliable audio signal level gets back to your ears.

Here's the thing, some people will be lucky with their computers and those two areas will fall in a more ore less passable range. For many others - especially with low end-midrange laptops and low end desktops systems (but even some high dollar systems) - note so lucky.

For everyone, the only way to record and monitor at correct and reliable levels is to have the proper gain stage and monitoring equipment AND to setup those systems at the proper levels.

Generally speaking, a constant 1kHz sine wave input signal should hit the meters of your DAW at a specific dB level. This can very somewhat depending on the equipment your using and type of music being recorded and whether or not you are using one of the K-Metering systems or not. If you have no means to regulate the input signal, then you just take the luck of the draw or put something like a mixer channel or preamp in between that audio signal and the AD interface to the computer - A gain stage.

If a gain stage is needed with a Mustang I/II then, you can either use the headphone out or go to this site, click on "Amps" on the left and then download the PDF file about "Adding an additional "line out" jack to any amp" which is a simple mod that most people handy with a soldering iron can do cheaply.

Mustang III ^ users have other options than using the headphones/speaker tap outputs.

For calibration of input signals going through a gain stage, see this article for detailed instructions:

http://www.homestudioguide.com/HowToCalibrateYourRecordingLevels.aspx

NOW, as to your not being able to hear what's been recorded unless you go over 0dB, either the Windows Audio Mixer settings on the computer are set way to low or the audio out of the soundcard needs some help - OR BOTH.

Monitoring recorded audio at low levels is pointless if your trying to put something together for others to listen to. There are two reasons for this. First, generally speaking everything sounds better louder and second, the reason everything sounds better louder is because you hear more detail in the audio.

Pro audio engineers monitor audio at specific dB levels when crucially mixing. For ROCK music material, that is generally at or near +83 db. And yes that is pretty loud but not much different from a typical bar band's stage volume level (unless their really over the top or death metal or something).

For the amateur to monitor at a correct and reliable audio signal level that gets back to their ears isn't hard but you do need a dB meter to do it. You can get one from Radio Shack ($50) or borrow one from someone in a band if you don't have one.

As for instructions, all I can offer is how to setup the K-Metering system in REAPER, but it should be similar in most DAWs. First, you'll need to download the file "-20 dBFS RMS pink noise stereo 44.1 WAV from this page: http://www.digido.com/downloads.html. The site also has a wealth of info about audio recording so, you may want to check that out as well.

This project will allow you to calibrate your playback system for K-20, K-14 or K-12 metering. You should set the Windows Audio Mixer for your souncard so that the Master Volume and WAV Volume are at least at 75% and don't alter them after this calibration - if you want to have any consistency at all.

Open REAPER and start a new project with the audio settings at 44.1 kHz. Drag and drop the "Pink_min_20_dBFS_RMS_uncor_st_441.WAV" onto a track then:
  • 1. Go to Options -> Preferences -> Appearance and make the changes:

    Meter update frequency = 50
    Meter decay (db/sec) = 60
    Meter minimum value (dB) = -60
    Reset peak indicators on play/seek = checked

  • 2. Right-click on the Master VU Meter and make the changes:

    Show = Peak + RMS (radio button)
    Top Label = Peak (radio button)
    Window size = 600 ms (list box)
    Display offset = 20.0 dB (list box)
    Display gain = 3.0 dB (list box)
    Red threshold = 4.0 dB (list box)

  • 3. Using a dB meter - the same distance from the speakers your ears will be -, set the monitor levels of your speakers via your amp so that when playing back the -20bd track your monitors are putting out 83db (read on the on the dB meter). Using a piece of tape, grease pencil or similar, mark this volume setting on your amp so that you can return to it.

Now you DON'T need to monitor at this level all the time, just when doing critical mixing. Also, if your not able to monitor at this level because it disturbs other household members or your neighbors, plug earphones into the amp and monitor at the appropriate level.

Once you've set up your monitors and meters correctly, changing from K-20 to K-14 or K12 is just a matter of changing the setting in REAPER's display offset window and also lowering the volume on your monitors. With the SPL meter you should mark your amp's volume for:

  • * 83dB (K-20)
  • * 77dB (K-14)
  • * 75dB (K-12)

I know there will be lot's of people that will think that this is too much to go through. And if your getting acceptable results fine, but if your not, you can either do this or accept the crap shoot.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:44 pm
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morbit-alatariel wrote:
p90sdude wrote:
morbit-alatariel wrote:
As for turning up the volume in audacity, isn't that like zooming in on an already pixelated picture? I could be wrong, off course.

Nope, That's comparing apples and oranges (graphics and audio). Increasing the volume will not degrade the audio unless you hike it up past 0dB - at which point you'll start getting digital distortion which is very ugly.


And it just so happens that's exactly what I got. I just tried it, the only way to get the volume up to a decent level is past 0db. It's like I played through a SS amp that's been abused for 10 years straight. I can't describe it any better.

As I feared, I was right about the volume in the presets. The preamp volume is set around 7 or so in most presets I use. Turning it up to 10 only slightly improves it, but still not the volume I need it to be.

As for reaper, it did not fix the issue.

Don't get me wrong, the quality of the recordings is very good, there is no loss as you would with a simple cable or mic, but the volume is just too low. I bought this amp mainly for the USB recording, I'm desperate to find a working solution so at least I have my money's worth. (Although, as a regular amp I would certainly buy the IV or V later on)

Did you try using your Mustang's headphones out through an external USB device connected to your computer? I had similar problems (in addition to a crappy soundcard) and ended up purchasing CakeWalk's UA 4FX USB audio interface. I have a 1/8 plug going from my Mustang II headphones out into the guitar input of the UA 4FX. With this, I can use the MII's volume and master knobs to control my input signal as well as use the UA4 FX's input control. I can monitor it all with no latency whatsoever (another problem I was having using the mustangs usb and Abelton). Since the device came with SONAR LE, I've been using that software rather than Abelton and it is incredible. Recording levels are perfect. The UA4 FX is becoming obsolete though. Prices are coming down drastically which means it's going to get discontinued due to it being an older model. I got mine for $99 from Sweetwater. I have an older computer so it worked for me.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:51 am
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Between the preamp volume to adjust input level and your DAW's channel volume to adjust playback level of individual tracks, your volume control should be taken care of. If you're at 0db and the playback volume is low, you may want to check your playback system.

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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:16 am
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So, I was just messing around recording with my Mustang V just now and I found that the "Master Volume" setting in FUSE in the "Advanced Amp" settings makes more of a difference than about anything else I've messed with.. The standard presets come with that "Master Volume" level turned to around half way, when I turned that to full volume I was clipping with several of my presets.


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:41 am
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itshreds wrote:
So, I was just messing around recording with my Mustang V just now and I found that the "Master Volume" setting in FUSE in the "Advanced Amp" settings makes more of a difference than about anything else I've messed with.. The standard presets come with that "Master Volume" level turned to around half way, when I turned that to full volume I was clipping with several of my presets.


I will have to give this a try, I was having the same problem and posted a thread about it, then found this one after the fact.... I will turn it up in fuse and give a shot and let you all know what happens....


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Post subject: Re: Recording too quiet
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:43 pm
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I have no problem using the headphone out jack as an output to my Line 6 USB Tone Port interface. I can use the master volume to raise the level, and not have affect the tone by using the amp volume or gain. Works great.


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