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Post subject: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:52 pm
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As baby was sleeping in the next room I plugged in my classic player 50's strat, donned my headphones and had some fun. Then it all went wrong, so I recorded a snippet for you to hear.

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajwg_xTpQJM

I used the 'Derek Champ' settings, modified with gain at full and volume at full, just messing around. Master volume was around 7. Guitar is a Fender Classic Player 50's, in PUP position 5.

I started to change pickup selection and noticed this really horrible, what I assume is, digital clipping. The more the master volume was turned up the worse it got.

I wanted to test if this clipping happened across the amps speakers but couldn't as I mentioned earlier, baby is asleep in the next room.

If I hit the strings reasonably gently, all was ok. Thumped them a bit harder and UGH.

Here is a screen of the settings used (master volume at 7):

Image
Derek Champ by chinster.uk, on Flickr

Fender, can you advise? The amp is brand new, I've only had it a week or two.

If anyone wants to try and replicate what I have done, feel free, you have all my settings above (the settings are also in the first 10 seconds of the video), I'd love to hear how you get on, if it's happening with other Mustangs.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:38 pm
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Defect... but why you have it up so loud .. Holy macro.......... lol Anyways, it sounds related to the Wah-Fuzz effect. I get something like that too when I turn on the Fuzz.... Take it back for replacement. Mines crystal clear/clean at the same settings...butI'm using 4o watt MII and man it was still way to loud ......... Master on 7... baby really asleep. lol

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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:10 pm
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Pinky Floyd wrote:
As baby was sleeping in the next room I plugged in my classic player 50's strat, donned my headphones and had some fun. Then it all went wrong, so I recorded a snippet for you to hear.

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajwg_xTpQJM

I used the 'Derek Champ' settings, modified with gain at full and volume at full, just messing around. Master volume was around 7. Guitar is a Fender Classic Player 50's, in PUP position 5.

I started to change pickup selection and noticed this really horrible, what I assume is, digital clipping. The more the master volume was turned up the worse it got.

I wanted to test if this clipping happened across the amps speakers but couldn't as I mentioned earlier, baby is asleep in the next room.

If I hit the strings reasonably gently, all was ok. Thumped them a bit harder and UGH.

Here is a screen of the settings used (master volume at 7):

Image
Derek Champ by chinster.uk, on Flickr

Fender, can you advise? The amp is brand new, I've only had it a week or two.

If anyone wants to try and replicate what I have done, feel free, you have all my settings above (the settings are also in the first 10 seconds of the video), I'd love to hear how you get on, if it's happening with other Mustangs.


What version of the firmware are you using on your Mustang IV?


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:24 pm
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Latest firmware installed.

The master might have been on 7 but I was using headphones. Anyway, I got it to clip with master as low as 4. If I hit the strings hard enough I could get it to happen.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:42 pm
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It shouldn't happen, it could be possible be the firmware since yous use a different one then us, but I think its a Amp defect, else everyone would be posting about it...but ask fender to watch the video...cause, using my MII, I did the exact same settings and it never clipped or sounded all fuzzed out like that.

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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:52 am
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Just wanted to update with what Fender UK said:

The headphone out socket is NOT designed for recording and has a much too high signal to go into a recording device (and it could also damage his equipment). The problem he’s hearing is with his recording equipment not the amp.

The Mustang amps are specifically designed for digital recording via the USB cable and software provided. All the set up and user info can be found in the manual with additional help and support @ http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/mustang/index.php

If you ask the your guy is still having problems he can give my department a call we’ll gladly see if we can help with any questions.


Thing is, I wasn't recording with it at the time. I had a (Y) headphone splitter connected to the amp, into which I plugged my headphones in and a cable running directly to my PC. The sounds I was hearing were coming from my headphones, not the computer.

I had a chat over the phone and the UK Fender guy was very helpful.

I'm going to unplug the Y splitter cable so nothing else gets in the way and retest.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:55 am
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Huh, sorry, I have to learn to read. I thought you recorded it over USB and played it thru the Amp speaker(s) on Vol 7, I apologize, my bad...

I didn't try it with the headphones on Vol 7isn'tnt that to loud still..... I play on vol 1 and 2 at most. Anyways, your Amp might be OK, next to try is the obvi.... run it between 4 & 7 naturally though the Amp speakers.... then of course trrecordingng over USB ... it might be the headphones or the guitar cause you said once you switch the pickups it started ...but still might be a problem with the headphone line-out.

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Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:25 pm
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Pinky Floyd wrote:
Just wanted to update with what Fender UK said:

The headphone out socket is NOT designed for recording and has a much too high signal to go into a recording device (and it could also damage his equipment). The problem he’s hearing is with his recording equipment not the amp.

The Mustang amps are specifically designed for digital recording via the USB cable and software provided. All the set up and user info can be found in the manual with additional help and support @ http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/mustang/index.php

If you ask the your guy is still having problems he can give my department a call we’ll gladly see if we can help with any questions.


Thing is, I wasn't recording with it at the time. I had a (Y) headphone splitter connected to the amp, into which I plugged my headphones in and a cable running directly to my PC. The sounds I was hearing were coming from my headphones, not the computer.

I had a chat over the phone and the UK Fender guy was very helpful.

I'm going to unplug the Y splitter cable so nothing else gets in the way and retest.


The response from the Fender UK rep contradicts what the manual says:

Quote:
Phones Jack

Plug in your headphones, ear buds, or powered
speakers to enjoy the Mustang's stereo features. This
jack may also be used as a stereo recording output. The amp's
speaker is muted when the PHONES jack is used.


I purchased my Mustang III with the understanding that recording this way would be possible, and have been getting good results doing so. I've been connecting the phones jack to the aux in on my digital recorder with a 1/8" stereo cable, and generally have the master set between 4 and 5 while recording this way.

I haven't tried cranking the master up to 7 while doing this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did push headphones or recording devices into clipping. Before recording, I set things up so that when I dig in and play as loudly as possible, my input level meters don't creep much past -3db. Depending on the preset used, that'll happen between 4 and 5 on the master. I would expect going much past 5 would be too hot, but of course that's with my particular setup.

Not sure if your amp has a defect, or if perhaps 7 on the master is just too hot for your setup, but either way, I don't think Fender should be discouraging you from doing something that's clearly described as a feature in the manual.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:40 pm
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My experience is similar to MusicalCircuitry's but my setup is a bit different.

I run the headphone out of my Mustang II into a mixing board. I set the master volume on the amp to "4" and then bring up the fader for the channel on the mixer until my strongest playing lights the meter bridge on the mixer at 0dB.

The mixer's main outs go into an interface that connects to my computer. In my DAW (REAPER), I have the K System metering system set up and a 0dB signal coming from the mixer hits -6 dB in REAPER's meters - exactly where I want it to be.

The way I see it, it is likely that your just going too hot with the master volume on the amp at 7 and there is nothing wrong with the amp.

Just as a note, my AKG K240 headphones will clip at levels well below what my studio monitors (Tannoy PBM 6.5 II;s) will withstand . So it doesn't surprise me that you would hear clipping in the headphones or in anything else you feed the headphone out into at that level.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:59 pm
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My experience with the line out pretty much matches p90sdude and MusicalCircuitry. Line out to my PC (I did use the USB for recording but my PC lags a bit; needs more memory) with the Master at about 1.5 - 2.5. This gives me a good input for Reaper.

I agree. You're probably just pushing the headphones too hard and they're clipping.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:36 am
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Unfortunately I didn't really get time to test last night.

I did remove the headphone Y splitter though and plugged in just the headphones, I didn't get any clipping so that's a good sign.

Will do more testing whenever I get a chance.


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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:06 pm
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Though I haven't seen a schematic of the amp yet, my guess is that turning your Master Volume up that high when using headphones is driving the built in headphone amp itself into distortion. If you are recording (or just listening) via the headphone output there is no reason beyond pre-existing hearing loss to turn it up that high. The Master Volume has no effect upon the amp modeling charisterics, and is only a local volume level when listening through the headphones. As a recording output, I suspect that you were way past usual line level recording levels at that setting. I would have the amp checked out to be sure, but I doubt it is defect.

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Post subject: Re: Fender, is my amp faulty? M IV digital clipping (video)
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:21 am
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Try turning the Volume down to 5, and compensate with Master Volume.

I have to keep my Volume knob at 4 or 5 otherwise all the amps and presets just become a distorted mess.


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