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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:32 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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HIO wrote:
arth1 wrote:
The Yamaha THR100 reacts darn near immediately, so clearly it's possible.

My guess is it's the Mustang's program design, where the different layers are switched out and in one by one, and to avoid bad-sounding transitions, a mute is added until the last one is complete and the pipeline full.

+1
Yes, the Yamaha THR100 reacts differently because it is a whole other animal. Very interesting design and I am impressed with it. Haven't tried one though,... yet.

On second thought to do the Yammy right you want the 2x12 cab to go with it. Between the dual head and cab we are talking around $1300.00 along with a whopping Limited 1 year warranty. I will stick with my Mustangs and their 5 year warranty for now thank you very much. <g>

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:32 am
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The Yamaha has only 5 models, with the right amount of ram/rom they may load all the algo into memory, ready to run at any moment. Can't do the same with the number of models that a mustang has.

As for the Mustang "layout", the guy who mapped the usb controls for mustang-plug linux software stated that there is a dsp for every fx slot, so five dsp's (amp,stomp,mod,delay, reverb).

I did some search with google. The "Fender DSP" is a Freescale DSP56725 (the same for Mustang and many other devices). It looks like it has a single DSP with 2 cores. One with 56k ram and the other with 24k.

The yamaha uses the SSP2, the workhorse DSP from YAMAHA. It has 1/4 the power of the Freescale but looks like it has a large amount of RAM. If i understand correctly the SSP2 also has a "large" amount of RAM inside the chip. This means that it may be faster in the switching operation but is slower and also limited in execution.

One last consideration, maybe OT, the DSP56725 is the top of its DSP series, and this may be a limit when considering the design of v3 version of the 'stang!

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I love my Mustang!

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You can find all my Mustang tips here:
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An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
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USB Footswitch Opensource Project:

https://github.com/mordor74/mustang-raider


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:14 am
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I don't know much of anything about the electronic architecture of these things, so this may be irrelevant.
I just picked up a Zoom G3X, and it switches patches close enough to instantly so that it seems instant.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:22 am
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Even the high end ADI TigerSharc 600Mhz and Sharc 450Mhz DSPs used in the Fractal Audio Axe and Line 6 Helix units (each use two) have a Preset switching latency. This is why they have implemented their Scenes and Snapshots features to work within this constraint.

If Fender releases a new Digital unit, one would certainly expect that it contains newer DSP.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:05 pm
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mordor74 wrote:
The Yamaha has only 5 models
Snip/

True but,..........

It also has 5 output tubes you can pick from although not real 6V6, EL84, KT88, 6L6GC, EL34.

You can also choose from a fake Class A or AB designed amp <g>

It has variable power output of 25-watt, 50-watt, and 100-watt.

It has impulse response speaker simulation where you can choose from a bunch of industry standard cabinets and mics.

It also has four noise gate settings and you can choose from spring, plate, room, or hall reverb but be ready to have some outboard pedals because that is all the effects you are gonna get.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:35 am
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It was not a critic to the yamaha product. Never tried one but always wanted to... I like the form factor and the look of the object, i am less attracted by the preset system but this is secondary to the tone quality.

About the zoom... I also own a MS50g that should be just a little step behind the G3x. I use it as a stomp box in fornt of my mustang I to expand possibility, mainly as a autowah (50%) and then for the overdrives and modulation. Sometime just experiment with different fxs. Would have liked to put it in the send return but the 20w model does not have it. If you ask me about quality my opinion is that noise reduction is the best. Other fx are very good but amp emulation is not on par with fender. The preset system is far better in the zoom, on the other side. That sayd, yesterday i made a test on switch speed and i dont see much diffrence between the mustang and the multistomp. I used the footswitch on the stang so it may be faster than other system. The update in the fuse when switching channel was slower than the sound change... Anyway Zoom state that is using a custom selfmade dsp so they may be better than the rest in that.

The ADI TigerSharc costs over 200$ per unit for the low end model (450mhz) where the freescale top model (500mhz) is something under 10$ per unit. The tigersharc is pretty efficent but is nowhere 20 times faster than the freescale. Putting a 200$ processor ona mustang will rise the price of all the line of 300$ at least. Add that if you change the architecture you have to rebuild the program from ground and i honestly dont think Fender is going to do that easyly. One side the freescale will never have an upgraded model, on the other side the mustang line is still a top seller in solid state guitar amps so why put some effort when you could not sell more than that?

_________________
I love my Mustang!

---------------------

You can find all my Mustang tips here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/
An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
http://ridingthemustang.blogspot.it/p/unoffcial-guide-to-fender-mustang.html

USB Footswitch Opensource Project:

https://github.com/mordor74/mustang-raider


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:24 am
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mordor74 wrote:
It was not a critic to the yamaha product. Never tried one but always wanted to... I like the form factor and the look of the object, i am less attracted by the preset system but this is secondary to the tone quality.

For being a solid state, the THR100 is rather impressive, sound-wise. Yamaha don't make a lot of exciting products, but very good workhorses, with focus on quality. A significant part of their market over the years are orchestral and schools, where quality matters, and this bleeds over to their other product range too.
I'd be more comfortable taking a THR100H on the road than a Kemper costing twice or three times as much. Granted, I would not have hundred of controls needing a 400 page manual to understand, nor impressive blinkenlights, but I can't fault Yamaha for quality or ease of use.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:59 am
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I have a Mustang III V2. I use the four button foot pedal. The amp just recently started acting up when I switch between settings - doesn't matter what type of settings - clean to crunchy or vice versa. What happens is that I step on the pedal to switch and nothing happens, except that the amp goes mute for about 10 seconds and then changes to new setting. Never had this problem - have played a hundred gigs with all working well - instantaneous setting changes - until now. Will do the same if I turn the setting wheel on the amp itself. Anyone have this problem?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Channel Switching Delay
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:40 pm
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I just bought the M3 V2 and clearly noticed the latency when clicking to another preset, too. I am not used to this with the Marshall the Guv'nor (or any other outboard) pedal that I used to use. During gigs (and practices) this is going to be a bit problematic.

Of course I could go back to using the Guv'nor, but I quite like the diversity of sounds that the M3V2 gives me (and I paid for, right?). This is a bit disappointing. I do not remember this coming up in any of the reviews that I read when researching this amp.

@leeharperva - sorry to hear about your troubles. I'd contact Fender, as this is clearly some kind of malfunction. Please let us know if and how this was solved. Quick additional question: before you did not experience any latency when pushing on the footswitches?!


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