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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:53 pm
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Hi people!
I have initiate this "discussion" some time ago, and baptized this thread in order to capture attention from Fender technicians. The serial number of my Mustang III is
CGPK 10000113, Type PR826 and have a label with a manufacture date: 11/2010.
For me, the 1.6.4 firmware solve my problem. What bother me near the end of strings movement, disappear period.
The only thing I dislike is to much bass in general. I can't remove easily the amount of low frequencies in MIII. I use mostly the neck pickup of my guitars, Duesenberg Starplayer TV and a Fender Telecaster (with Bill Lawrence noiseless pickups) but I think the Bass potenciometer don't cut what I would like... A friend who have an Ibanez Pat Metheny model and a Fender Deluxe feel that same big amount of bass with the pot totaly cut, in comparison with his amp.
Maybe a future firmware update could add more dBs to cut on Low filter pot, or a dedicated DSP parametric EQ in the low range... It's not an hard thing to implement, I think.
Best regards,
Moz


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:10 pm
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Driver3 wrote:
Maybe Fender should supply a UPS/Conditioner with the amp if that is the only way to get a true clean sound out of it?

No. That would be like demanding Fender supply a properly setup guitar with each amp. In both cases; it's up to the individual to 1) provide clean power to the amp, and it's up to the individual to 2) put usable guitar tone into the amp!

Asking Fender to include a "UPS/Conditioner" with each amp is like demanding Ford provide smooth, perfectly paved roads with each car!


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:02 am
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Hi Joemoz n' all,

You sure did start something going back then.
Mine is CGPK 10000140 - very close to yours ! - and also
responded well to the v1.6 Update.
Where are you located, joemoz ? - interested in where and when you
bought yours. I'm in Ireland and bought from Thomann in Germany
in early February.

We're now trying to discuss how to make the Mustang even better,
whether it's with "friendly", :wink:, banter or suggestions to Fender about what
elements we'd like to have improved and/or included in a Firmware Update.

Maybe we should rename this Thread the "Joemozzzz Factor" in honour !

Jim


Last edited by JimDub on Mon May 23, 2011 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:46 am
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Fused wrote:
Driver3 wrote:
Maybe Fender should supply a UPS/Conditioner with the amp if that is the only way to get a true clean sound out of it?

No. That would be like demanding Fender supply a properly setup guitar with each amp. In both cases; it's up to the individual to 1) provide clean power to the amp, and it's up to the individual to 2) put usable guitar tone into the amp!

Asking Fender to include a "UPS/Conditioner" with each amp is like demanding Ford provide smooth, perfectly paved roads with each car!



...you mean they don't? No-wonder I'm getting a bumpy ride! :lol:

Actually, a better analogy might be the quality of petrol (or gas to our US friends). Put in dirty/contaminated fuel & your car won't run smoothly. :wink:

_________________
"I started out with nothing ...and I've still got most of it left!" (Seasick Steve)


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:28 am
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Rockcat wrote:
Actually, a better analogy might be the quality of petrol (or gas to our US friends). Put in dirty/contaminated fuel & your car won't run smoothly. :wink:


...dirty/contaminated, this would apply more to strings.

If you put cheap, dirty strings in your car, it probably won't run smoothly. ...see what I'm sayin'??? ha, neither do I. ...this is, in a sense, the obnoxious tail end distortion of your dirty strings.

Hey, had another wonderful series of practice sessions tonight -- NO obnoxious tail end distortion to be found anywhere. I got stuck in one patch for hours. It's amazing how many songs you can create with just one frickin' patch on the V. With a 5-way switch and 10 notches on the tone and volume that's like; what...1,000 different usable tones with one patch???

One thing's for sure. I'm glad I got this thing after they released the firmware update that sped-up the patch changes -- that would have driven me nutz! I heard the difference. In computer time, it's huge! On a few patches with delay and modulation, if you timed it just right, you could add cool sounding...smears between patch changes and if you did them right, they'd be in pitch! :shock:

Anyways...I'm addicted to an amp again, finally! I was so tired of the tube v. ss v. modeling thing. sstm is here!

Anyways, I'm gonna go deep again to see if I can find this now elusive obnoxious tail end distortion -- and YES, the Furman power conditioner and high quality cords and high quality guitar electronics and proper setup make a HUGE difference!


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:05 pm
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A few more comments about my time with the Mustang III. I used a guitar(s) plugged directly into the amp with a low capacitance cable(20 picofarads per foot). No computer, no pedals, no power conditioner, no effects loop connections. I called up clean presets or dialed down the drive/gain to clean them up. The fizz was there just by playing an open string. No fret buzz or whatevers to color the sound. Question... Do I know what a tube amp should sound like? The answer is yes. I have five tube amps, two combo's and three heads. I built all three heads and one of the combo's. Two were kits with bare-bones instructions and two were built from scratch using classic circuits that I modified a little. My last build was my take on a Harmony 415, which was my first amp(purchased roughly in 1966). I'm no great player, I've never played a gig in my life. I do my own teching for my guitars and amps. I enjoy messing around with gear. When I get time I'm going to learn how to use the fretting tools that I have. And one more thing, I do have competitor's modeling amp. It's a good amp, But It's no Mustang. It does a lot of things, But it doesn't have the tone of a Mustang. When this fizz thing is solved, I'll get another Mustang. Bob


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:47 pm
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Hi Harmony,
If I recall, you took a floor model first and then returned it to
collect the new one in a box. The new model showed the problem,
so you took it back. You then tried the old one in Store again and
reported it now had the same problem as the new one, but not found
when you first had it. Maybe the Store one was'nt the same one
that you brought back !. Did you check the Serial Nos. before and after ?
Silly question, I know !. These rogue amps are still doing the rounds,
probably because some dealers just can't be bothered or don't know how
to test ! or return them to Fender. There's more money in Valve amps so
the Mustang is treated in an off-hand way.
C'est la vie.

Jim


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:28 pm
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jimfdr wrote:
Hi Harmony,
If I recall, you took a floor model first and then returned it to
collect the new one in a box. The new model showed the problem,
so you took it back. You then tried the old one in Store again and
reported it now had the same problem as the new one, but not found
when you first had it. Maybe the Store one was'nt the same one
that you brought back !. Did you check the Serial Nos. before and after ?
Silly question, I know !. These rogue amps are still doing the rounds,
probably because some dealers just can't be bothered or don't know how
to test ! or return them to Fender. There's more money in Valve amps so
the Mustang is treated in an off-hand way.
C'est la vie.

Jim

On the one hand, it could have been that the original worked and the replacement was defective, or there's an electrical problem that manifested the day he brought it home and has persisted to date. He didn't mention if he tested his power source for noise. The noise could be coming from dirty 'lectricity!

When I first started using modelers *and* I had cheap cords and a cheap powerstrip, there'd be noise storms that would come and go and then some would last for days and weeks!

So, it's not just the foofy stuff to keep the noise down that helps, but also not plugging directly into what is likely a noisy plug hole helps!

Harmony, why don't you buy a power conditioner to see if it helps?

If power conditioner don't work...try a line conditioner (the next step up in noise reduction).

What if, what if in order for the Mustang to sound this good (which it does), there has to be frequencies listened to where noise occurs. Hence, in order to get this good tone, you need clean, clean 'lectricity.

If anything's wrong here, it's my suggestion that Fender include info online or in the manual about how line noise and radio interference effects the Mustang amp, plus info about how to reduce the noise!


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:39 pm
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Jim, it was the same amp that I first purchased. It had two nice "custom" scuffs in the amp covering on the left hand side when viewed from the front. This is the unit that I tried in the store when I returned the second one. Had the scuffed one not fizzed, I would repurchased it. But alas, it did the fizz thing with a Squier CVC Tele plugged into it. I have that very model at home among a host of other electrics. Bob


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:09 pm
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jimfdr wrote:
Hi Joemoz n' all,


Where are you located, joemoz ? - interested in where and when you
bought yours. I'm in Ireland and bought from Thomann in Germany
in early February.
!

Jim


Hi jimfdr,

I'm in Lisbon, Portugal, another PIGS country (we have in common, at least, one Mustang amplifier, FMI and some other european political/financial predatores on our backs, if you are in that Ireland...).
I have bought my amp in Jan-10-2011, the fist arrived here. I like very much this ampli. The weight is a bonus for me. If necessary I'll carry this amp 100 meters to a cab with my Duesenberg (10Kg with case). I'm near 60 years old and this 100W/12" speaker with 16,3 Kg was a blessing. Finally a transistorized thing sounds acceptable.
For me, an improvement on MIII would be more dB range in low cut filter. I think the low frequencies don't match so well some of the amps cloned/emulated. Am I wrong?


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:25 pm
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Hi joemoz,

My own reasons for buying the Mustang III are, almost exactly, the same
as you have described - light weight, good clean sound, built-in effects,
the 4 button F/Switch, and forget all the old pedals and bits. Just need
my Epi Sheraton II and Volume pedal in the FX Loop and ready to go !.
Only difference is, I'm 70 years young and still rockin' - you have a bit to go !
Forget about the Pigs, the Bailouts and the Default - just rock on !
The Duisenberg's Humbuckers might benefit from Gibson Brite Wires strings.
I find them much less bassy than others, and more zingy ! - and handle
that low end problem better. Try them.

Good luck, Moz

Jim


Last edited by JimDub on Tue May 24, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:38 pm
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jimfdr wrote:
Hi joemoz,

might benefit from Gibson Britewires strings.
I find them much less bassy than others, and more zingy ! - and handle
that low end problem better. Try them.

Jim


Hi Jim, I'll try that strings for sure. Thanks for advice.

Cheers,
Moz


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:00 am
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Hi all,

are there any news (from Fender?) regarding this issue? Currently I own a Mustang II which is a great amp, but I want to upgrade to a Mustang III because it is even greater! :D At the moment I'm testing the 3rd (!) Mustang III and with all of them I have that nasty buzz in the note decay when using clean Amp-Models, as described here in this thread. They all came with FW 1.5, I upgraded them to 1.6.4 - no success, noise is still there. The 3 Mustangs were all manufactured in 02/2011. With some Models (Champ for example) I hear this nasty digital noise even when I hit the note, right from the beginning. Lowering the Gain or the Volume does not help.

I made the same experience as other users, that it is probably a problem with the power amplifier. There is no noise with headphones, no noise on USB-recordings and no noise if I connect the FX-Out to the FX-In of my Blackstar HT-5. I tested with two guitars, a Hagstrom Super Swede with splitable Humbuckers and a Strat-Copy (HSS). Single Coils behave better, maybe because they have a higher "noisefloor" (?). I even took one of the Mustangs to my parents house, same problem, so it's improbably that I have "dirty power" here in my flat.

If it's really the power amplifier, the opportunity to cure the amp with a new firmware is not so realistic, isn't it? That would be really sad, because after hearing the magic of the Mustang III (excluding the buzz, of course :roll:) it would be really hard to go back to the Mustang II :?

I don't know what to do (talking to myself, blah blah). Keeping the III and learn to live with the noise (but biting my $@! if Fender is planing to make fixes in the power section in next production runs - so I miss the chance to buy a "noiseless" amp in a few weeks or months?) - or getting rid of it, forgetting how epic it sounds and fall back in love with the Mustang II (and maybe waiting for a noiseless III)?

Sigh, sometimes life is not so easy :lol:

Greetings from Germany to all my fellows of the "Anonymous Bothered-by-Mustang-Noise Group" (ABMN) :D and also to all those who have luck with their great Mustang III :wink:

Michael


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:45 am
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Hi Muff Potter,

Sounds like you're finding all of the bad ones, still being moved about.
Fender and their dealers should really have taken these out of circulation.
I see that Thomann.de in Germany are expecting a new delivery next week.
Maybe the problems have been addressed in this production.
Hang on until you can try one of these new ones. They have a 30 Day
no quibble, money back return, and a 3 Year Warranty.
Good luck
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Obnoxius tail end distortion
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:40 am
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@ Muff Potter

If I were you, as much as you like the M3, I'd move on to greener pastures and buy something else.

Who needs all the aggravation of trying to time your purchase to get one of the good ones ... or buying what's available and hoping the next software issue will cure the problem ... or dealing with all the speculation by users as to the cause of the problem and hoping that Fender is listening etc.? On top of all that you seem to keep finding the duds ... I would have expected that you would have lost confidence in the Mustang by now. As much as you want to like it ... if it doesn't work .... it doesn't work.

I bought my M2 right after they were issued in 2010 and it had the fizz problem. Subsequent software changes have essentially gotten rid of the problem in my case ... but from what I read here ... I'm not convinced the Mustang is ready for prime time and that Fender has sorted everything out. Also, users who have updated their software but still have the fizz problem appear to be out of luck ... I don't see any evidence on this forum that Fender has taken care of those users. IMO Fender has lost credibility with this product.

KenB


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