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Post subject: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:45 am
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I just got my Mustang V Head and I can't find any info on the speaker output ratings. Does it need to be a certain ohm value or does the solid state part not care about that? I did find a little info on the Fender 4 x 12 cabinet that indicates that it may be 8 ohm stereo but I'm not sure. Also if you use the headphone out jack does there still need to be speakers on the output jacks or does it bypass the output section all together?

Thanks

Edit: oops, just looked again and I see it does say 8 ohms @ 75W min for each output. Still curious about the headphone out question though.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
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From the Mustang 1-5 Advanced Manual (search the fender site, it's on there):

"The Mustang V head amplifier provides stereo speaker outputs that must both be connected to a stereo speaker cabinet such as the Mustang V 412, with four 12" Celestion® G12P Rocket 50 speakers (recommended), or two 8Ω speaker cabinets capable of handling 75W each."

It appears to me that you need BOTH outputs hooked up to an individual 8 ohm cab, or both hooked up to a stereo cab with 8 ohms a side.

Curious why there isn't a mono output?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:24 pm
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That's odd. I know with PA heads, they are standardized to 4 ohms since that's the load two 8ohm speaker cabs (1 per output jack) will put on the amp. Does that mean the Mustang V is nominally @4 ohms?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:58 pm
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
That's odd. I know with PA heads, they are standardized to 4 ohms since that's the load two 8ohm speaker cabs (1 per output jack) will put on the amp. Does that mean the Mustang V is nominally @4 ohms?
No - these are completely separate power amp (stereo), so each amp is 8 ohms respectively. I would *not* just hook up one speaker - that will likely damage the *unused* amplifier. Boy would that suck! :cry:


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:34 pm
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Although I don't have a stereo m4 or m5, I think the manual should more adequately address the speaker hookup.

And I will say again that I'm surprised that there isn't a mono speaker option, especially for the M5.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:41 pm
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Greetings All,

As the new owner of a Mustang V head with similar concerns, I would draw your attention to a recent thread (that I initiated) on the Music Electronics Forum (MEF) surrounding use of speakers specifically with the Fender Mustang V head:

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t23380/

On the basis of conversations with knowledgeable folks there at MEF as well as with Fender reps and the Advanced Owners Manual, it would appear that Fender and Fender reps and Fender's manual are all in error. Specifically, it would appear that by design, speakers DO NOT need to be connected to the Mustang V head, whether using headphone jack or not.

I am not a trained amp 'tech' and I encourage everyone here to read the cited thread on MEF because it will help answer many of these same questions, but on the basis of what I've learned there about solid-state vs. tube amps, the solid-state variety DO NOT use 'transformers' as such (they use transistors instead), and accordingly, there are no 'loading' issues (i.e., no speakers need to be connected to safely use the amplifier.

It also makes it clear that you can safely use 8-ohm or 16-ohm cabs at either one or both or neither speaker output jack. It appears that it simply doesn't matter with SS beasts like this one.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:29 am
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Sockeye is 100% correct. Loading issues are ONLY with Tube OUTPUT transformers. You must ALWAYS have a load (either speakers or Hot Box type attenuator) on a Tube Output amp.

On Hybrid Solid State amps with a SS Preamp but Tube OUTPUT Transformer you still must have a load on the transformer as above. The ONLY acception to this is if you take a signal feed from a SERIAL [NOT Parallel ] EFX Send (out) and DO NOT send it back to the EFX Return (IN). That in effect places a zereo (nill) power load on the output transformer which is safe. When you do this you will have no "live" sound.

I have done the above with many Hybrid amps that did not have a phone out. I send the EFX signal to a separate headphone preamp (or mixing board or audio input card) to eliminate room sound but still have full access to the amp's tones (less the speaker effect on the tone.

On FULL SOLID STATE amps such as the Fender Mustang line I through V, you can have one, two or no speaker connected without harming the amp. The amp is rated at 75 watts per stereo line at 8 ohms. That is the ideal setting for getting all you can out of the amp. Because there is no "load" requirement, you casn use other loads but the volume, and to a lessor degree tone, will be effected. Must would not notice a difference.

One of the things missing on the V Head which I have is a "XLR balanced direct line out" which would have been quite nice but would have added to the base cost. In place of that, you can use the stereo (or mono) EFX outs to send your signal direct to a mixing board or an audio card ( you will not get the speaker tone [although you will get the internal speaker emulated tone] when you do this).

If you are making a LONG run to a mixing board, I would suggest a DI interface.

Hope this all helps and gives you some ideas of how you can use these great little amps.

Bo


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:39 am
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After reading that thread, it makes sense to me now.. I tried a 16 ohm speaker in my MII and didn't notice any volume/tone drop. So it only happens with Tube Amps eh...coolness

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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:36 pm
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info, I was really thinking about sending it back but now I'll give it a try with my non-stereo cabinet. Also I'm going to try the effects send instead of the headphone jack for a direct feed to the board. I used the headphone jack last week at practice and it seemed really flimsy and easy to break.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:44 pm
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Yeah it should work Bman ..you shouldn't have no problems as long as the impedance is always wired higher than 8 ohms on the cabs. What would be cool ..is find another cab ..place it on the other side of the room ... like wearing a big'azz pair of stereo headphones ... I love to play thru something like that sometime :lol:

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J. Hendrix / S.R.V. / E. Clapton / R. Hansen / F. Marino / B.B. King (now that's a neat six-pack) :)
Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:01 pm
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Bman110 wrote:
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info, I was really thinking about sending it back but now I'll give it a try with my non-stereo cabinet. Also I'm going to try the effects send instead of the headphone jack for a direct feed to the board. I used the headphone jack last week at practice and it seemed really flimsy and easy to break.



Yes - your connection will be much more secure. It should also sound better. In most cases the output impedance is higher on an EFX send than on a Phone out. Phone out is usually the lowest quality output. Find for ears, but low-fi for any type of preamp input.

I can't seem to find the specs posted anywhere for the EFX out so this is a guess on my part - - - - but an educated guess. LOL

Bo


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:11 pm
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It would be nice if someone from Fender clarified this situation.

I don't doubt that the previous answers are correct, but I believe some clarification from the manufacturer would be nice.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:09 pm
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Bo -

Thanks for your two posts here earlier - very detailed and quite helpful. There has been further discussion on this matter again today over on the MEF website (the forum referenced in my earlier posting), and I'm quite confident at this point in what you've said here and in what I've heard over there.

Regardless of the uncertainty and inconsistencies in what Fender (and its Owner Manual) have said, a stereo output device like this one, even if it were a solid-state hybrid of some sort that required a speaker load, would need twin (stereo) output transformers, which would put the retail cost of the Mustang-V well over $300, and that's clearly not the case.

Like you, I am now fully confident that the Mustang V can be safely played with one or more speakers of any impedance or with no speakers at all, regardless of whether the headphone jack is in use, and I've repeated this here soley for the benefit of others who remain justifiably confused about this ongoing issue.

Bottom line? If you're a new Mustang-V owner, plug it in and play it, and don't stress any further about speaker type, speaker number, speaker impedance, or speaker connections of any kind. None of it is really going to matter with this head. You're good-to-go!

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:55 am
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While I don't doubt the expertise of the people posting on the music-electronics forum (a forum I'm a member on as well), the fact is the manual, and last word from the manufacturer clearly states:

"The Mustang V head amplifier provides stereo speaker outputs that must both be connected to a stereo speaker cabinet such as the Mustang V 412, with four 12" Celestion® G12P Rocket 50 speakers (recommended), or two 8Ω speaker cabinets capable of handling 75W each."

(from Mustang_1-5_Advanced_English.pdf - emphasis mine)

Until fender officially edits that manual or issues some sort of clarification, you would be unwise to do otherwise.

That said, there are Fender reps here on this board... why haven't they clarified this???


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Post subject: Re: Mustang V Speaker Outputs
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:52 am
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cuz sum thingz are best kept a mystery its (area 51) :D :D (j/k) ...no they probably will reply - you'll see :)

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J. Hendrix / S.R.V. / E. Clapton / R. Hansen / F. Marino / B.B. King (now that's a neat six-pack) :)
Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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