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Post subject: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:20 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Sorry for the double post but this subject belongs here:

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:10 pm
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Hi,i'am the new guy here and just bought the mustang I and before i give you my opinion of it let me give you some of my knowledge on amp modeling in general,i like to experiment with different brands of amp modeling technology,i have line 6 spider I,II and III amps,peavey vypyr 15 and 30 and i also have a collection of table top and floorboard type amp modeling processors,for exsample,behringer v-amp2,v-tone gdi21,digitech gnx3,korg ax1500g,ect...,i also post my opinions on other community forums and i like to share my knowledge and tips with everyone,in a nutshell i find my best tones by combining my amp modeling amps and processors in different ways just to let everyone know where i'am coming from.i would say the mustang I has some very good amp modeling and good tones for what it is as a small practice amp,now i'am going to give everyone a good tip:when i hooked up my mustang I to my vypyr 30(i used a 3.5mm male stereo to male stereo cable)to connect from the mustangs headphone out to my vypyrs aux line input the tone i got out of this setup was just fantastic,i got the best metal tones that i have ever heard and the fender cleans sounded very close to the original amps that they model,the tones were much better than the vypyrs amp models alone and made the mustang sound like a toy amp if used just by itself(sorry,no offense to anyone or fender)but that's how good it really sounded,you could also try to hook up your mustang to a stereo power amp and then into a 4x12 cab,i'am sure this would also sound very good,let me know if anyone gives this setup a try?sorry for the long post


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:28 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:55 pm
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Location: ʎʇıuıɟuı ɟo sʇɹıʞsʇno
(me too dbl trbl) :mrgreen:
Funny you mention that ..cause at least two other's said the exact same thing which makes me wonder why??? Whats with this headphones out thing that makes it sound so much better then stock ... like what ohms is it.. 32 ? i still don't know ..and what if we ran the headphones out to the actual mustang speaker ..would it make it even better sounding ? .. I've only tried a different speaker w/o success ...but that was hooking it up in the regular way... through the back cept my Wizard speaker was 16 ohms so maybe that's why I didn't notice much.

Seems this headphone out should of been connected to the back of the Amp in the first place :) and Holy macro ..u have one massive collection of goodies there ..I'm glad to hear the mustang did some justice ...and like you say ..metal tones are killer .. . frigs, you turn the amp to 5 or 6 and ur in Hendrix feed-back heaven.

I'm pretty sure I have one of those end connectors... I'm going to try that into this dusty Marshall Amp I almost forgot about. Pretty sure it had a few connection things on it ..i hope.

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Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:53 am
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Aspiring Musician
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aLinux,let me explain how this works,on your mustang or any other modeling amp that has a headphone output your guitar signal path is going through the pre amp section of your mustang not the power amp section(just like the headphone output on a cd or mp3 player for example),the pre amp output is around 2 volts and is measured in milli-watts and not in a higher wattage rating that would be able to power your mustangs speaker or any other speaker,and when the mustangs headphone output is connected to my vypyrs aux input the vypyrs amp modeling section is bypassed(so the only control i have on the amp is the master volume) and the signal goes straight into the power amp section giving me a more natural frequency response(almost like going through a p.a. system or a hi-fi system but with a limited high and low end,it is still is the perfect frequency range for guitars and this is why it sounds so good with this type of setup,the amp models from the mustang sound much more realistic and natural sounding,i hope this helps you understand how this all works.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:04 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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MetalMan,
That makes perfect sense to me now. Thanks for the wonderful explanation. I'm a noob after-all :o) and was starting to wonder about this stuff. Thanks.

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J. Hendrix / S.R.V. / E. Clapton / R. Hansen / F. Marino / B.B. King (now that's a neat six-pack) :)
Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:39 am
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If i change my Senheiser HD100 for the AudioTechnica M50's would i hear the difference ?
I mean using them with my mustang III.

Thanks !


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:27 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Hi,

The only difference between the phones output and and what you hear from the mustang speaker is the speaker itself, as the power amp is designed to be as transparent as possible.

By design, guitar amp speaker have limited frequency response, which means they filter out and enhance some frequencies. In the case of the Mustang 1 the effect is even more notorious as it has only a 8" speaker. As an example, this is the frequency response of a Mustang 3 speaker. Differences might look small across frequencies but please remember that 3dB difference means twice the sound heard.

Image

So if from the output of the power amp, you get a 150Hz and a 800Hz tones both with the same output power, this particular speaker will make the 800Hz sound twice as loud as the 150Hz one.

Different speakers will give you different coloring. In particular PA speakers and general audio speakers are designed to provide for a flat response. In the previous example, the 150Hz and the 800Hz tone would have the same loudness.

You might want to try playing with the cabinet emulations on the mustang itself or deactivating the feature altogether for a particular preset. You will get a variety of tones similar to changing physical speakers.
In the particular case of the M1, if you are an audio purist I would recommend more giving the M3 or M4 a try as they have better and bigger speakers, and the upgrade would be less expensive (and bulky) than having an external power amp with another speaker.

Another downside of using general audio speakers is that, by design, the custoff frequency for guitar speakers is 70-80 hz right on the spot to minimize the most the 50-60 Hz hum you will get from you single coil pickups and possibly pedals if you have some. In the case of general audio speakers (particularly woofers if we are talking 10-12" speakers) the response will go low down to 20-30hz so you might expect a lot more hum from those compared to guitar speakers.

Personally, when I connect the M3 to an external amp speaker I found it too hi-fi for my taste and totally "un-bluessy" but that is just me.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:14 am
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jedi2b wrote:
Hi,

The only difference between the phones output and and what you hear from the mustang speaker is the speaker itself, as the power amp is designed to be as transparent as possible.

By design, guitar amp speaker have limited frequency response, which means they filter out and enhance some frequencies. In the case of the Mustang 1 the effect is even more notorious as it has only a 8" speaker. As an example, this is the frequency response of a Mustang 3 speaker. Differences might look small across frequencies but please remember that 3dB difference means twice the sound heard.

Image

So if from the output of the power amp, you get a 150Hz and a 800Hz tones both with the same output power, this particular speaker will make the 800Hz sound twice as loud as the 150Hz one.

Different speakers will give you different coloring. In particular PA speakers and general audio speakers are designed to provide for a flat response. In the previous example, the 150Hz and the 800Hz tone would have the same loudness.

You might want to try playing with the cabinet emulations on the mustang itself or deactivating the feature altogether for a particular preset. You will get a variety of tones similar to changing physical speakers.
In the particular case of the M1, if you are an audio purist I would recommend more giving the M3 or M4 a try as they have better and bigger speakers, and the upgrade would be less expensive (and bulky) than having an external power amp with another speaker.

Another downside of using general audio speakers is that, by design, the custoff frequency for guitar speakers is 70-80 hz right on the spot to minimize the most the 50-60 Hz hum you will get from you single coil pickups and possibly pedals if you have some. In the case of general audio speakers (particularly woofers if we are talking 10-12" speakers) the response will go low down to 20-30hz so you might expect a lot more hum from those compared to guitar speakers.

Personally, when I connect the M3 to an external amp speaker I found it too hi-fi for my taste and totally "un-bluessy" but that is just me.




And in the Headphones output whats the frequency ? Taking out the speaker of the equation would different headphones sound a lot different ? I mean if use a different headphone like Senheiser VS AudioTechnica m50.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:18 am
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Aspiring Musician
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certainly different headphones will sound different, particularly all the consumer ones that are geared towards techno music (lots of bass and not much more :)
But if you are like me you will end up using headphones under extreme circumstances only (the wife complaining for example) as it not the same feeling as getting the big sound out of the 12" speaker.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:24 am
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Thanks Jedi for the info !! Yes i need headphones to keep my girl !! hahaha i also dont want to be killed by a neighbor in the middle of "texas flood" hahahaha


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:08 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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This discussion just gave me a great idea! It would be good if fender had headphone modeling for the most popular headphones that are used in the studio and even some consumer models,maybe it could be added to fuse in a firmware update or a newer version of fuse?

For example if you have the akg k240m headphones you would select this headphone model in fuse and it would be the correct match for these headphones to sound best with your mustang's headphone output.

If fender cannot do this in a firmware update then maybe they can add this feature in a new mustang version?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang And Other Modeling Amps
Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:24 am
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Metalman50 wrote:
If fender cannot do this in a firmware update then maybe they can add this feature in a new mustang version?


A global EQ would be a nice feature for a firmware upgrade.

HTH,

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