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Post subject: Mustang II Sounds Harsh / Muddy with Gain and Overdrive
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:35 pm
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Wondering if anyone else has experienced this with Mustang II...

The Fender amp models sound really good with clean settings. Love the Twin Reverb clean. But when I increase the gain or add overdrive, the sound becomes harsh and muddy. Particularly when playing chords (not so bad with single note leads).

Not sure if this is typical, or if there is something wrong with this amp. I know the whole point of gain and overdrive is to add distortion, but this sound is harsh, not just distorted.

I have a few guitars and it's always the same. MIM Strat, Squier Standard Strat, Epiphone LP Standard....

Anyone???


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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:59 pm
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I hadn't noticed that before. I'll run a few tests and see if I can reproduce that here.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang II Sounds Harsh / Muddy with Gain and Overdrive
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:31 pm
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novergaa wrote:
Wondering if anyone else has experienced this with Mustang II...

The Fender amp models sound really good with clean settings. Love the Twin Reverb clean. But when I increase the gain or add overdrive, the sound becomes harsh and muddy. Particularly when playing chords (not so bad with single note leads).

Not sure if this is typical, or if there is something wrong with this amp. I know the whole point of gain and overdrive is to add distortion, but this sound is harsh, not just distorted.

I have a few guitars and it's always the same. MIM Strat, Squier Standard Strat, Epiphone LP Standard....

Anyone???


That's the natural Tube distortion (o: ... but..If you haven't yet ... update your firmware by installing the CD / Fuse and connect the USB cable to a computer w/ enabled internet to complete the upgrade .. Others things
you may want to try is lowering your pickups a bit ... and playing around
with the other Stomp distortion effect pedals withing Fuse if you don't care for the AMPs natural distortion. You can always use the clean Twin reverb
and hook your own external overdrive/gain/distortion pedal up as well.

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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:00 am
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These amps are very responsive, similar to tube amps, unlike other modelers. Sometimes all it takes is LOWERING the gain to find the sweet spot for your guitar's pickups, just like you would with a tube amp! :)

Play with the controls in FUSE a little to create presets that work with your guitar. The built-in presets are intended to get you started, but probably have been set up with standard Fender single-coil guitars in mind. They will sound muddy with higher gain humbuckers unless you find that sweet spot.

Have fun!


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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:51 am
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I will agree on the harshness. I have been thinking of returning the unit for this very reason, but the cleans are so good. Last night I hooked the amp up via usb and did the firmware update with the anticipation of better sound, but the harshness is still there. I was able to dial some of it out, and the Fuse program is much better than editing on the amp. The harshness reminds me of an overloaded speaker type sound. I am going to work on it some more tonight with Fuse and hope that it gets better. I am playing a strat. Any tips appreciated.


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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:37 pm
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bclarke675 wrote:
These amps are very responsive, similar to tube amps, unlike other modelers. Sometimes all it takes is LOWERING the gain to find the sweet spot for your guitar's pickups, just like you would with a tube amp! :)

Play with the controls in FUSE a little to create presets that work with your guitar. The built-in presets are intended to get you started, but probably have been set up with standard Fender single-coil guitars in mind. They will sound muddy with higher gain humbuckers unless you find that sweet spot.

Have fun!


Exactly ... they are so Tube like but we dont have to change the Tubes is another plus and they dont run HOT :)))

but yeah, keep fooling around with it .. there's lots of different gadgets to
play around with like the SAG / Bias, of course effects, etc ... yous should
be able to dial in something you like. Another thing i do because its so tube like is DIAL back your guitar volume ... cleans up the channel and
then when going for the kill . put it to ten! ... Hope yous find a good setting.

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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:36 pm
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Appreciate all of the feedback...

I think it will take some tweaking to get the tone I like. I was playing around with the Brit80s model with my Strat w/neck PUP and I when I dial down the gain to like 2 I was able to get a nice blues tone I like. Still love the clean Twin Reverb w/ compression...

I have updated the firmware, but I haven't noticed a difference to my perceived "harshness" with higher gain on some models. I think VAPOR is experiencing the same thing I'm hearing and he has described it well saying that it sounds like an "overloaded speaker". Perhaps this is just a natural overdriven tone and I'm just not used to it...

I'm no audio pro, but it almost sounds like the distorted overtones are in conflict when I play a chord. I know, sounds dumb... But it's almost like the speaker can't handle the distorted tones, or it's some kind of digital conflict thing.

But I love many of the tones of this amp and I'm a big fan of Fender, so I'm just trying to figure out if this perceived "harshness" is typical, or if I should be looking into something different...

Thanks again for all the feedback.


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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:48 pm
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And I forgot to mention, I'm also taking a liking to the Fender Super Sonic amp model. Provides a nice Fender tone with the ability to add gain like a modern amp. :)


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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:14 pm
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novergaa wrote:
And I forgot to mention, I'm also taking a liking to the Fender Super Sonic amp model. Provides a nice Fender tone with the ability to add gain like a modern amp. :)


I was playing with super sonic the other night as well and it is a really cool amp ..cleans up nice when you dial off the gain and crunches when you add more gain .. Just take your time .. I think i know what yous mean ...When i first bought mine and tried just the actual AMP w/o Fuse and farted with the gain and stuf i thought wtf as well ..but after fiddling with stuff and listening to more tube amps ...i see they're mimmicking a Fuzz like distortion .. like earlier overdriven amps .. I actually love it now
cuz I'll play with my real tube amp here and it sems to always be missing something ..but soon as i hook into MII its ALL there ..low volume of course ..not sure what they sound like past 4-5 ..but its beats my Tube amp for real tube breakup fuzz any day ..and the tube amps been num 1
all along Palomino v16 el84/12ax7 cept i replaced V3 with 12au7 .. anyhow ..with brand new strings on strats i can get some wicked SRV happening on the MII ... (Just keep foolling around with it . hopefully you'll
love the tones it does produce....not all but some) Good 2 bill invenstment

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:04 am
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Keep in mind that different pickups will give different results ... and that with the ability to tweak stuff as much as Fuse allows ... it takes a little effort to dial in a sound ya like.

KenB


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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:49 pm
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KenB5 wrote:
Keep in mind that different pickups will give different results ... and that with the ability to tweak stuff as much as Fuse allows ... it takes a little effort to dial in a sound ya like.

KenB


So true ... I have four strats here and all of them have different pickups and different woods, necks, etc ... but I find the one with Vintage Noiseless
pups using a bottom base plate beats out my Fralin strat w/ M II.

Also ..if we havent changed strings in a while ..that always makes a difference too :o)

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Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:55 pm
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novergaa wrote:
And I forgot to mention, I'm also taking a liking to the Fender Super Sonic amp model. Provides a nice Fender tone with the ability to add gain like a modern amp. :)


That's my favorite for Overdrive tones. Add a few pedals and you're ready to go!


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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:15 pm
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The Mustang will also respond very strongly to changes in your guitars volume and tone. You can try rolling your guitars volume back some too which can help clean up the gain and make it more clear. I also noticed that pushing the treble too high given all your other settings can make it harsh, try setting it to noon and make it your last adjustment. Aside from the Sag and Bias adjustments make sure you stay away from the 4X12 Marshall cabinet as I found its emulation to be harsh. Good luck!


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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:11 am
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ryry444 wrote:
The Mustang will also respond very strongly to changes in your guitars volume and tone. You can try rolling your guitars volume back some too which can help clean up the gain and make it more clear.


And that's usualy unheard of with Solid State AMPS ... But remarkable with the Fender Mustang's I/II. I love the Tube like feel with these little giants.

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Eminence The Wizard vs Stock Mustang II Speaker Shootout http://arttux.com/Fender-Mustang-II-Eminence-Wizard-Speaker-Swap/


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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:26 am
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I highly recommend experimenting with the Bassman amp and placing the rack overdrive effect AFTER the amp. Set the Bassman for a rich, clean tone and let the post Bassman OD dial in that SRV tone.

You might check out these presets as a starting point:

- Robben Ford OD 1 (this is the preset that got me started on using POST Bassman OD)
- CM SRV OD

I also recorded a clip of Hendrix's "Castles Made of Sand" using the USB port and I am using the Bassman with the rack OD.

http://chris-manning.com/audio/fender-mustang-tones-castles.mp3[/list]


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