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Post subject: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:16 am
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So I am trying to get a decent FX rack hooked into the FX loop of my Mustang V head. With the loop mode set to normal there is not enough gain to drive anything in the rack and the noise is completely off the rails making it completely useless for even live use let alone recording. If I switch the FX mode to loop remote the noise and gain issues go away but this is not really the configuration that is optimal (all fx AFTER the cab sims?). What were they thinking?

And what's the deal with all of the noise in the normal mode and why can't I get enough gain out of it? I searched for some type of level control and utility menus but there was none. Not to mention the fact that channel volume apparently affects level into the FX loop?

And for the output to make it to the recording out I have to have headphones connected? I guess I could find a cheap pair of headphones and leave them plugged in :(

I hate to say it but if I can't find a remedy for all this, this amp is out the door.

Am I overlooking something?


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:20 pm
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How are your various racks connected? I would check those cables. Should be enough gain in the effects loop.

And far as recording out - do you mean the USB connected to a computer for recording?


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 1:04 pm
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. Here are some updates:

I don't think the issue has anything to do with my rack because I can jump a cable directly from the send to the receive in back of the app and as soon as I go into normal mode there is more hiss and noise than a 1000 pissed off rattlesnakes. Switch back to the looper FX mode and the noise goes away.

A quick Google search found that there were numerous other people experiencing similar issues with various Fender amps. Some are suggesting that the looper FX circuit is using a more isolated circuit source or something. There WAS one person with technical savvy that opened up one of their fender amps and swapped out a resistor or something giving both loops a common ground which improved the situation supposedly. This was a tube amp loop though not a Mustang. In any event, I cannot find anyone having these problems that figured out a viable solution for non-electronic experts.

It's not so much hum or ground problem as it is outright white noise. Why on earth it would behave that way with nothing plugged in the loop is beyond me. Those with technical expertise elsewhere on the Internet strongly suggest it's just a poor design by fender. But I'm no electronics genius so I'll leave that to their opinion.

As for gain, with the loop in FX looper mode there is plenty of gain to drive the devices in the rack. Unfortunately this puts all of the processing post cab sim. I suppose that's not the end of the world as I have plenty of cab sims in my Daw, but again I do not understand Fender's reasoning in this regard. I get that when using a looper device this behavior might be beneficial but then how many of us are really doing that? In any case, the preferred method stated in the manual is normal mode which is unusable due to the inherent noise level.

I also noticed that the channel volume affects the send volume going to the rack. This means the amp has to be loud in the room in order to drive the rack sufficiently. I get that I can turn the master volume down but that seems to affect how the amp Sims sounds/responds. Maybe that's all in my head. Probably is. I haven't done enough recording with it to say for sure how that's going to pan out. Other amps allow me to turn the channel volume all the way down and still get a good signal into the Daw with rack effects.

But what's really freaky is that as soon as you plug a set of headphones in, once again all gain to the FX loop is lost and there is no way to drive the devices in the rack properly. Unplug the headphones and the gain returns. I guess this is a non-issue for me since I don't see myself using that headphone output anyway. But if someone were trying to use it as a silent practice amp they would never be able to drive their FX loop properly.

Fortunately, the signal does make it to the balanced out with headphones unplugged, something that the PDF file suggested otherwise, (or maybe I was just reading it wrong).

Finding the right guitar rig is always an ongoing evolutionary process that never ends... I will try to contact Fender directly this week about this issue but I'm not holding out too much hope for that due to the fact that others with these issues did not get satisfactory responses from them.

Thanks for your interest in my personal journey towards guitar heaven. If you have any other comments or suggestions feel free to let me have it!

PS: As for USB I'm not using it for anything other than the fuse software. As with all things ASIO, multiple drivers don't work well together and already have a 32 channel interface with its own driver.


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:57 am
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Steviebone wrote:
And for the output to make it to the recording out I have to have headphones connected?
Steviebone wrote:
PS: As for USB I'm not using it for anything other than the fuse software. As with all things ASIO, multiple drivers don't work well together and already have a 32 channel interface with its own driver.

OK, I'm trying to understand your rig. You mentioned making it to the "recording out". I don't see a "recording out" jack on your Mustang V head, v1 or v2. There is XLR out, is that what you mean? Otherwise I guess you are talking about a microphone???

With regards to noise in the effect loop - I have only used my effects loop to tie in some Boss stomp boxes. Everything sounded normal to me. No white noise. Maybe your amp needs service.


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:04 am
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There are two XLR outs for connecting to board or DAW. I don't use the USB except for FUSE which isn't supported anymore by Fender. I haven't tried stomp boxes but as I said before a simple jumper from send to return (single cable with NO devices in the loop causes the problem unless in looper mode. Others have reported similar problems with various Fender amps. According to techie types its a design flaw that requires circuit modification.


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:20 am
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So what I'm asking is .... when you say "recording out", do you mean the XLRs?

If it's a design flaw in the effects loop, it seems to have missed mine. Either that, or my ears are not finely tuned enough to care.


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:57 am
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Yes, the XLRs. If you had the problem you would notice it, trust me. I get major noise whenever the loop is plugged in even without any devices in the chain, unless the looper mode is engaged in which case it is perfectly fine.

I'm not sure what the next step is, I found the head in a pawn shop for $80. Cosmetically it is in mint condition, looks brand new. I'm going to ask my tech about it, but not gonna pay to ship it to Fender tho. I can live with it if I defeat the cab sim in the head. Not using the rig live anyway. The gain drop when plugging in headphones is odd but again, who cares? Can't imagine I will be using that feature much if at all.

The clean sounds are a bit sterile but warm up ok with a moderate tube in the loop. I'm using the clean channel of BK Butler 922 (with mullards) in the loop and it sounds much better.


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:58 pm
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I hate to say this because I am NOT a fan of "disposable" gear but.....

IMO your best bet is to find another one. Pay again. Maybe that's why the one you found was so cheap.


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:13 pm
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maybe... it's still useful, i never expected it to be the end all of amp gear... but it was a good deal. My tech may be able to figure something out. Thanks for the input!


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Post subject: Re: fx loop modes and noise noise noise and no level
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:48 pm
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Anytime and good luck. Yeah as long as it's still kicking, someone should play it.


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